[rambus]

I do not understand why SE keeps making gear like this that does basically the same thing.

and for the most part 7 INT gives you more damage and does not have the +2 enmity on it.

I can understand if this game was new and they throw out stats like that but this game is around 8 years old now and they keep doing this at an increasing rate.

with V spells coming out that seem to have even a greater impact from INT the the older spells i really want to know why they make gear like this, do they test when they come out with gear like this, and evaluate the end impacts of each.

I do not understand having different stats that basically that do the same thing, blizzard notices stuff like that and are actually taking stats out of the game ( it would be like talking out the stat of "magic attack bonus" increase the impact of INT so you dont loose the damage what you are doing now and make AGI impact the damage of quick draw.

[pathwriter]

I hear Magic Attack Bonus helps with Bind and Blind and Sleep.

[rambus]

pathwriter, on 24 August 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

I hear Magic Attack Bonus helps with Bind and Blind and Sleep.

your right, and that reinforces my point, magic attack bonus as a whole does less then what INT does.

with gear like that and conering the damage you get by nuking with drk ( that has no MAB) but higher skill then a RDM who gets MAB II, where MAB II from RDM can be subed.

Then you have the issue with SCH who has no magic attack bonus trait vs BLM who has MAB IV

then you have blu stuck on MAB I

that stat needs an overhull with stopping releasing gear like im showing.

ether remove the stat or give MAB traits to all jobs that use it.

when you consider level 99, a RDM would need level 3 or level 4, a BLM would need level 6 or level 7 ( to keep up with SCH) SCH level 3 , drk level 2 or level 3, BLU with level 3, cor with level 1, 2, or make / BLM level 3 subable

if you really want to keep the stat they need to also stop making new INT gear outdamage the new MAB gear like the ones I show.

what is the point of making MAB gear that does less damage and offers less versatility? as in resist rates.

[pathwriter]

Do me a favor: have a look at Speed Belt, Swift Belt, Ninurta's Sash, Headlong Belt, Goading Belt, and Bullwhip Belt in that order (order of release to the game). Here we have a variety of belts that, let's be fair, are all within reasonable tolerance of one another (the gap between Headlong and Bullwhip is large, but between Swift and Goading, not so much). Let's even pretend that they're all All Jobs, even though only half of them are. Why are there redundancies?

Well, it certainly couldn't have anything to do with ease of acquisition or rarity, could it? Galdr Ring now exists, so what was the point of adding Aquilo's Ring, especially when a Black Mage would optimally be pairing Galdr with Sorcerer's Ring?

And, of course, there's the simple fact that SE just throws random stats at things. What the hell is up with Kawahori Kabuto? Or Sangoma Lappas? And who in their right mind is equipping Blason Ring or Adler Ring?

[Banter]

There's a reasonable difference between Goading and all others due to the STP, but only looking at haste you're right.

[Gredival]

Items are never perfectly redundant. There are inches of difference between the items. Case in point, Amemet / Forager's / Cerberus

FFXI is a game where small numerical margins stats-wise may mean a large difference in performance

Usually the better items are harder to get. Perhaps not to scale with how much harder the challenge is (Velocious vs. Ninurta). But nevertheless there is generally increased reward for difficulty. There is an obvious disconnect pre- and post- 75+ cap (Bullwhip vs. Ninurta), but generally within comparative eras a difficulty to reward correlation generally holds.

It's a pretty simple concept for everyone but Rambus

This post has been edited by Gredival: 25 August 2010 - 12:52 PM

[Chocoburger]

Gah, did not know about magic attack bonus helping with those 3 spells (any other non-nukes benefit from it?), then again I am still a n00b BLM. ._.;

[pathwriter]

Uh... on the off chance you're being serious, Chocoburger, I was being sarcastic. INT affects those spells, but Magic Attack has nothing to do with debuff potency excluding Helix spells.

[rambus]

This or my point has nothing to do with having a 6% haste belt that's old and very hard to get then start to get easier to obtain ALTs for it. This 7 INT and 3 MAB are both new , both 80, both used by the same jobs ( though as shown the 7 INT has more jobs that can equip it)

So i ask you, what the fuck is the point of the 3 mab belt or why bother making it?

one is from Abyssea - Konschtat the other is from Abyssea - La Theine, they where reliased at the same time and almost the same way of getting them.

the 3 MAB one ( will underperform 7 int more so then 3 mab >7 int) may be >slightly< harder to get? ( from ah pricing) it makes no sense to me

and how you classify "debuff" or a "nuke"? helix is a DoT but that DoT damage if followed from a "NUKE" formula.

you can "debuff" that one NM in sea but helix does 0 damage because it is a nuke?

This post has been edited by rambus: 29 August 2010 - 03:21 AM

[1]

Rambus: with regard to your original post.. did you look at the fact that RDM and BRD apply to one belt and not the other? from a Black Mage "only" point of view yes these belts are redundant...
BUT there is more to FFXI math than meets the eye.

There's that bs thing called tiers or thresholds dictated by skill and Int and magic attack+; and that because they do exist :depending on "one's"
(notice how i say ones cause it obviously doesn't apply to your BLM or SCH) total skill, INT, magic attack bonus there will be scenarios where somebody at lvl 80 will get more use out of Magic Attack +3
than Int+7 and vice versa.


oh and they're not the same cause one is INT+7 and the magic attack 3.5 that comes with it, and one is simply magic attack+3 without Int+7 to accompany it.

One a side note.
I'd take a Goading or Ninurta over a Bullwhip any day. Hell I'd even wager that Goading > Ninurtas.
About Bullwhip that 1% haste is nothing compared to the -70HP and -elemental resistances.
Besides they're all meh compared to the MNK exclusive Black Belt.

This post has been edited by 1: 29 August 2010 - 03:31 AM

[rambus]

1, on 29 August 2010 - 03:27 AM, said:

Rambus: with regard to your original post.. did you look at the fact that RDM and BRD apply to one belt and not the other? from a Black Mage "only" point of view yes these belts are redundant...
BUT there is more to FFXI math than meets the eye.

There's that bs thing called tiers or thresholds dictated by skill and Int and magic attack+; and that because they do exist :depending on "one's"
(notice how i say ones cause it obviously doesn't apply to your BLM or SCH) total skill, INT, magic attack bonus there will be scenarios where somebody at lvl 80 will get more use out of Magic Attack +3
than Int+7 and vice versa.


oh and they're not the same cause one is INT+7 and the magic attack 3.5 that comes with it, and one is simply magic attack+3 without Int+7 to accompany it.

One a side note.
I'd take a Goading or Ninurta over a Bullwhip any day. Hell I'd even wager that Goading > Ninurtas.
About Bullwhip that 1% haste is nothing compared to the -70HP and -elemental resistances.
Besides they're all meh compared to the MNK exclusive Black Belt.

im saying the 3 mab belt should not be in the game, that it is a waste.

and no its not 7 int = 3.5 mab why do people say that? its an estimate that revolves around IV spells.

when you put V spells or even the newer ones coming out it would prob make that statement more false.

it would be amusing to see the 7 int boosting V spells better while the 3 MAB is better for ja.

this goes into my next point, why make that situation in gear like that? the room strain is bad enough that 3 mab belt and a bunch of other gear im sure, unless your talking about old outdated gear witch i am not talking about, should never been put in the game. It makes idiots that don't know the game argue more with the people that knows whats going on is anther problem. When you make stuff like a >NEW< item that gives 7 int or 3 MAB released at the same time is pointless. A good example of dumb arguments for gear is that is when jet pants was new, they are a chivalry macro , that's it. " 7 int is better then 8 int because it has no neg stats" the hell.

I talk to people a lot , many would just use or want the 3 mab belt thinking MAB is the best for damage and not realizing that kind of int actually beats it in raw damage.

there is a 7 MND belt as well so why does it matter if whm can use the 3 mab one? I am not following with your " from a blm and sch point of view"

In the end the game is better off not releasing redundant gear like i pointed out in my OP (get rid of the 3 MAB belt/should never existed). I want ot know WHY SE does it.

They need actual reps to talk to people like blizzard.

This post has been edited by rambus: 29 August 2010 - 03:54 AM

[fyreus]

To be fair... there's always Aspir/Drain if you don't have darkness/darks day active.Situational gear is situational (iirc int doesn't effect aspir/drain just magic acc/skill and magic attack bonus) gotta love macro wear

Good Aspir builds = win

/solved

[rambus]

fyreus, on 31 August 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

To be fair... there's always Aspir/Drain if you don't have darkness/darks day active.Situational gear is situational (iirc int doesn't effect aspir/drain just magic acc/skill and magic attack bonus) gotta love macro wear

Good Aspir builds = win

/solved

no mab does not effect drain and aspir, so you are going to clog your inv so you get more intional bio damage?

shame there is no dark + gear at the wist i know of to see if we could agure what will give more damage in the end, that dark skill or that mab.

dark with bio is teird though so it would depend of course~

This post has been edited by rambus: 31 August 2010 - 01:06 PM

[Aleera]

I can't see how MAB+3 and INT+7 is redundant. Having a belt (hypothetically) with MAB+3 AGI +2 and another with MAB+3 CHR+4, yes. But not when MAB and INT have different effects on different spells in-game. You need to look at it outside of a BLM's perspective.

[ironwall]

I can never read a full post by Rambus.

[rambus]

Aleera, on 31 August 2010 - 01:44 PM, said:

I can't see how MAB+3 and INT+7 is redundant. Having a belt (hypothetically) with MAB+3 AGI +2 and another with MAB+3 CHR+4, yes. But not when MAB and INT have different effects on different spells in-game. You need to look at it outside of a BLM's perspective.

WHM has a 7 MND belt, whats the point in saying this?

ok tell me where in the fuck in what situation is 3 MAB used over 7 mnd or 7 int?

the MAB one is SMN/BLM/SCH/WHM >.>

cuz atm i can only think of one, that would be adding like 2 points of damage when you consider the intal damage of bio, other then that i don't see the point in using 3 mab over 7 mnd or int.

This post has been edited by rambus: 31 August 2010 - 02:09 PM

[Aleera]

rambus, on 31 August 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

WHM has a 7 MND belt, whats the point in saying this?

ok tell me where in the fuck in what situation is 3 MAB used over 7 mnd or 7 int?

the MAB one is SMN/BLM/SCH/WHM >.>

WHM also has equipment with healing potency +% on it, but you don't see them complaining about redundancy with pieces of gear in the same slot that have MND on it. As far as BLM goes, MAB effects nuke damage, INT does the same, but also has uses for enfeebling, enhancing, MDB (lulz), ninjutsu, blue magic, etc. I'm just saying I see no redundancy when both stats function differently in game, despite sharing one similar quality. You're clearly just looking at it from a BLM's perspective.

http://wiki.ffxiclop...ki/Intelligence

http://wiki.ffxiclop...ic_Attack_Bonus

They're not the same thing. They have their uses in different ways. What is 3 MAB used for over 7 MND or INT? I dunno, you tell me. You started this thread about it's redundancy. I'm just pointing out you're making an argument out of nothing.


Edit: Also, ding 3,000 posts!

This post has been edited by Aleera: 31 August 2010 - 02:20 PM

[fyreus]

ironwall, on 31 August 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

I can never read a full post by Rambus.

His first post was well written plus i was unaware that drain/aspirs worked differently than blu's hammer. Most spells with similar uses tend to kinda work the same :/ i guess it's time to find something that item is good for.


Maybe the enmity and mab work with each other? Does int kinda cap out if you're way higher than a mob's level while mab (i assume it's a type of potency here) simply gives you more damage overall? I'm thinking from a melee high acc or more att and less acc vs T mob.
If there's no real answer, then we'll have to toss this in the pile with those rare/ex 71 smn boots that no one has figured out yet (i'd be upset if they give avatars crit bonuses and we all tossed them out).

This post has been edited by fyreus: 31 August 2010 - 02:51 PM

[rambus]

Aleera, on 31 August 2010 - 02:19 PM, said:

WHM also has equipment with healing potency +% on it, but you don't see them complaining about redundancy with pieces of gear in the same slot that have MND on it. As far as BLM goes, MAB effects nuke damage, INT does the same, but also has uses for enfeebling, enhancing, MDB (lulz), ninjutsu, blue magic, etc. I'm just saying I see no redundancy when both stats function differently in game, despite sharing one similar quality. You're clearly just looking at it from a BLM's perspective.

http://wiki.ffxiclop...ki/Intelligence

http://wiki.ffxiclop...ic_Attack_Bonus

They're not the same thing. They have their uses in different ways. What is 3 MAB used for over 7 MND or INT? I dunno, you tell me. You started this thread about it's redundancy. I'm just pointing out you're making an argument out of nothing.


Edit: Also, ding 3,000 posts!

7 int gives you more damage then 3 mab.

there is VERY VERY little situation where 3 mab gives more, i suppose you can go have fun doing 3 more damage on aero I or something...

or bio , bio II

That is why i posted this, 3 mab is really useless compared to 7 int or 7 mnd

and int does not give MDB ( it can act LIke mdb but int difference does not effect everything, for the stuff it can int difference in large amounts is better then MDB since there is a point you can zero damage a spell, MDB cant do that)

as for blu most spells would get more use out of 5 int/mnd ( pin rope) or even chr belts because im sure they give more damage then 3 mab even though this is a bit useless statement since blu can't wair this anyway.

there is spific situations where 2 int outdoes 3 int for a spific slot.

there is a hadful of situations where 4 int > 2 mab ( am II get like 2 damage more from the mab and ga III may get 5 damage more)

7 int > 3 mab

you MIGHT find some setup on an AM II or ga III where you might pull a point of damage ( yes 2000 vs 2001 damage) where that Mab may be that 2001 damage, that requires a specific setup (kinda gimp > naked) on specific mobs.

that extra damage is overshowed by the fact its +2 emn

yes its from a blm and sch prospective because that's the 2 jobs that would mainly use it, the others are whm and smn, if blu could use it, there might be spells it could do more then pin rope but i think those are few as well ( i am nto an expert on blu spells) or if cor could use it I would not of wrote this.

that belt should not exist

period

This post has been edited by rambus: 31 August 2010 - 07:22 PM

[Aleera]

rambus, on 31 August 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

7 int gives you more damage then 3 mab.

there is VERY VERY little situation where 3 mab gives more, i suppose you can go have fun doing 3 more damage on aero I or something...

or bio , bio II

That is why i posted this, 3 mab is really useless compared to 7 int or 7 mnd

Then if they're not doing the same thing, how is this redundant? Just use the INT piece.

rambus, on 31 August 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

and int does not give MDB

I'll beg to differ.. But that discussion is neither here nor there.


As for the rest of the post, not even gonna argue it since it's irrelevant, I know BLU isn't on the piece, I was just mentioning INT has it's purposes for the job as well.


So if the piece is useless, your argument and purpose for the thread should be just that. Not that the gear is redundant.