[Chriscoffey]

I was just thinking today about Sam and Drg about their haste. Both of these jobs now can almost/or max equip haste.

Sam being : Turban (5%), Dusk +1 (4%), byakko legs (5%), Fuma (3%), Bullwhip belt (7%) = 24% Haste.

Drg gear : turban (5%), wyrm mail +1 (2%), Timarli Dastanas (4%), Ace's Hose (4%), homam feet (3%), bullwhip belt (7%) and blitz ring (1%) =26%.

With that being said if you are going up against geared up jobs as this with an Apocalypse and they are on the same haste as you or right near it. They seem to take the special part of Apocalypse which was capping equip haste and doing away with it now. I am just wondering your ideas about this from all the Darks.

I know it allows you to change gear slots easier but this doesn't answer the question to me why allow the other jobs this much power with haste and just degrade the special parts of Apocalypse even farther. I just want some of your own ideas about this.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 25 August 2010 - 08:41 PM

[Arkanethered]

This is probably the one thing that actually concerned me a little bit when the announcement to raise the level cap came out. I don't know the answer to it beyond I wish that SE would scoot Cata into its own haste category but I don't see that happening. Just going to have to adjust our AM builds as new gear comes out and enjoy the HP drain aspect of cata.

[Chriscoffey]

I hate to say it but if i had all that gear on my drg i would rock a dark with apocalypse. I think a person in DRG forums was already rocking one fairly decent before any of this updated in EIN. I know also they didn't have all that new haste gear or older haste gear. I wish i could find that post but it's safe to say SE definately needs to rethink dark a bit and not some shit ass improves critical hit rate only they have for add on. I mean a multi hit critical weaponskill for Dark would be very nice if made with the right mods to counter some of this since they are the STRONG DD type found in other FF's.

What i dont understand is if they did that i would think they have to adjust cata at least to something that really is STR mod or a better fTP because it would be shit compared to a critical hit WS and sometimes/or alot you don't get enough haste/buffs (I.E. 4 hits with cor/brd combo /point UNC) to build up fast TP to change from cata to X WS back to cata.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 25 August 2010 - 09:24 PM

[Banter]

Stop making dumb threads.

[Chriscoffey]

Banter, on 25 August 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

Stop making dumb threads.

Dumb is telling me something like that instead of making some key insights to what this is compared to why Apocalypse is going downhill in terms of weapon use to other melee and their gear sets. Go live in a cave about it if you want I'm not and i damn well will say something about it too.

[Banter]

If you don't know why Apoc is good, you should probably just sell your account.

[Goshtin]

sam getting somthing that drk has?
stop the presses!

but yeah, SE give themselves a roof with 80 haste cap... by raising everyons level to 99.. there's gonna be a lot of ppl dancing on the ceiling besides apocs now..

[Banter]

MNK has been able to reach haste cap for longer than anyone, lol.

[Kaparu]

Glad somebody said it. You're worrying far too much about other two-handed jobs. Dual-wielders and monks are the ones who are going to make you all second class citizens.

[Banter]

This thread would be 100x better if it were named Hatse factor.

[Chriscoffey]

I am not dumb to not know what is good about Apocalypse but I'm merely stating the facts everyone is getting the extra's from what Apocalypse (Catastrophe) has and it sucks to me. I knew monk could get to haste cap fairly easily but we aren't talking about 100+ damage weapons being at the same level as H2H. I also know just like Kap said how well /nin will be for the multi hit weapons and DW you get from the sub.The thing about "dancing on the ceiling with haste for other melee jobs" goshtin quoted is very much correct yet those same jobs aren't confined to getting that using a weaponskill only. They can use their primary weaponskills and keep their haste.

I kind of wonder if that is also why they waited and only added 5 levels while they are still testing out their additons to level 90. War/nin@ 90( or alot of sub /nin jobs if they get DW3) with that is just broken before it even happens but i guess i need to experience it in person to understand how well it will be according to some in this forum. I just post stuff like this because i want to converse about our job and the changes to it compared to other melee. I play other jobs like most of you and i have alot of 75s and war/drg/drk/blm at 80 and for what it's worth both my war/drg will eat my dark right now with Steel Cyclone/Raging Rush/King's Justice and Drakesbane.

I hate for you bant. that i spelled Haste correctly but if you are grasping for straws to derail what point I'm trying to get across in my threads that's some sad sad shit. I also have you know that Raging Rush is still a very powerful weaponskill considering i was doing 1200-1700s constantly (had 1900+ one time) in one party on the Sperms without attack buffs. I also hit a 2790 Drakesbane, in another party, with 2 hour and just the defense down from jump w/2hr/potions/bison steak on bats. That is the same party that the guy doing Catastrophe could hardly break Catastrophe for 300-400 damage and my gear on Dragoon for example I'm just using a Cletine. Most of my Drakesbane were 1100-1200(Spikes being 1600-1800) and occasionally the low being misses from the 95% accuracy effect.

The point being it takes alot of gear to be sub par on a Dark. I guess that is my point about haste/gear/JA's/WS with other DD jobs vs Dark that even then you aren't going to compete easily with the rest of melee jobs now with sub par equipment on their part. I just think Dark needs adjusted from my experience on my own jobs but hey if you like what you see my bad to point out why i think that. I just think Dark with Apocalypse should be doing hella alot more damage since they are the powerhouse DD job in other FF's like i stated before. My opinion. I am curious about everyone else's without someone blasting them for what they think also with valid points to the contrary.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 26 August 2010 - 08:33 AM

[Banter]

Yea H2H is essentially in the area of D120 with a delay of around 350-360, that's not even close to Apoc .

[Taint]

DNC killed apoc the new gear is just burying the body. There was a time when ApocDRK was the absolute best DD bar none but other jobs advancements and the haste nerf has butchered it.

[Banter]

Taint, on 26 August 2010 - 01:14 PM, said:

DNC killed apoc the new gear is just burying the body. There was a time when ApocDRK was the absolute best DD bar none but other jobs advancements and the haste nerf has butchered it.

Maybe for zergs/short bursts, but not for extended lengths of time.

[Taint]

Banter, on 26 August 2010 - 01:28 PM, said:

Maybe for zergs/short bursts, but not for extended lengths of time.

It was anytime. DRK could hit 86% haste everytime LR was up. The longer the fight the further I would pull away. But zergs were insane, doing 20k+ damage to kirin in under 30seconds was boarderline god mode back then.

[Banter]

LR doesn't last long enough to make it the best DD all the time. Also, wasn't KC always better for zergs?

[Chriscoffey]

I just have to add this HAD YOU USED A HASTE BELT. You would have capped your magic haste with the regular march x 2 and haste spell and been like that EVERYTIME LR was up adding yourself up to 93.3% haste. I know it doesn't give you as much rewards now as then but it still has its uses but im barking up the same tree i always do so w/e. I think someone did the math and apoc had the potential to do 30k+ to mobs in 30 seconds or some math along that line. Apocalypse was a badass weapon when i tried my first one. Now seeing this shit SE has did to it just pisses me off.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 26 August 2010 - 02:08 PM

[Taint]

Banter, on 26 August 2010 - 01:57 PM, said:

LR doesn't last long enough to make it the best DD all the time. Also, wasn't KC always better for zergs?

No Apoc was much better with max buffs. I posted a bunch of SSs on this forum if you wanna look back a few years. I was fortunate to have both paid for by my LS

And last resport didn't have to last longer, the only DDs that kept up were MNK/WAR and top tier Ridill WARs. Full time Hasso and capped gear haste was also a bigger deal back then.

[Taint]

Chriscoffey, on 26 August 2010 - 02:06 PM, said:

I just have to add this HAD YOU USED A HASTE BELT. You would have capped your magic haste with the regular march x 2 and haste spell and been like that EVERYTIME LR was up adding yourself up to 93.3% haste. I know it doesn't give you as much rewards now as then but it still has its uses but im barking up the same tree i always do so w/e. I think someone did the math and apoc had the potential to do 30k+ to mobs in 30 seconds or some math along that line. Apocalypse was a badass weapon when i tried my first one. Now seeing this shit SE has did to it just pisses me off.

30k doesn't sound unreasonable. My max was 24500 I believ on Kirin but it was dead before LR wore off. I have minx2, marchx2, madx2, WAR and DRK rolls.

[Kaparu]

Taint, on 26 August 2010 - 03:22 PM, said:

No Apoc was much better with max buffs. I posted a bunch of SSs on this forum if you wanna look back a few years. I was fortunate to have both paid for by my LS

And last resport didn't have to last longer, the only DDs that kept up were MNK/WAR and top tier Ridill WARs. Full time Hasso and capped gear haste was also a bigger deal back then.

Apocalypse was never better for zergs than Kraken Club. CATA -> KC, sure, but never Apocalypse.