[Xani]

I was talking with a good friend the other day (ohai Aleera) and the subject of KI's updates/mods came up.
We both came to the conclusion that KI used to be a site where people would come for FFXI help. Now, however, it seems to have slackened on that front. It seems to me that KI has moved from an all-round FFXI site to a "Regulars Onry" forum.
I know that when I first found KI, it was much more up-to-date missions/quests wise than it is now, and I would regularly follow the guides on here.

Basically I'm whining because I'm fed up of KI becoming the shittier version of BG. KI wasn't always about Flame Wars, or the god damn forum. I love my forum, but seriously, maybe stop concentrating all of your efforts on that and put some effort into updating the rest of the site. I mean, even if you have to copypasta from wiki, who cares? Turn KI back into the good site it used to be.

I put a poll on this because I wanted to see if it was just me being a whiny asshat, or if other people felt the same way.


EDIT: Changed the topic of the poll to suit my point better.

This post has been edited by Xani: 02 March 2011 - 08:49 AM

[firefeng]

The older a forum gets, the more likely it is one will find a Regulars Circle Jerk. There is nothing that the mods can do that would create, here, the population size of Allah, or the in-depth information provided at BG. The onus for that is on the community members themselves. While I'll be the first to get annoyed that KI's DRK forum should probably be renamed "Apoc Onry", I do nothing to alleviate the situation, nor will I blame the mods for the direction that particular forum has taken. At the same time, efforts of the mods to get people more involved, such as with the KI Contests, have gone largely ignored by the community here, which again suggests it's a community issue and not a mod issue. Taken together with the popularity at bitching out certain mods in Flame Wars for overzealousness, and logic suggests that increased moderation would only serve to drive this place into a not-so-early grave.

You want a better KI? Convince more of the old posters to come back. I'd kill to have Mr. Pink Text back as a regular poster (Hell, even DianaraVP...not that I ever liked 'em much), along with the cadre of old Grandma's Dead posters, just because it was that section that held my interest the most here.

This post has been edited by firefeng: 21 September 2010 - 05:52 PM

[Aleera]

Ohai.


My only issue with it is not so much the number of people on KI, but the quality of their attitudes as well. Everyone feels the need to be negative (outside of flame wars) with everything, and there's little to no productivity among sharing new information with anyone here. It's hard for me to find info on certain jobs or anything here because anytime someone makes a thread, it gets trolled to shit by the first post. That's another thing, too. There is way too much trolling by idiots on here as well (hai2u Banter and Albela) that do nothing but bring the site's quality down (or what little is left of it) as well as people just giving into the stigma of this being the corner of gaming forum's asshole and not willing to give a crap towards its new and long time members. It really isn't the moderators faults at all, it's the community that drives itself down and cares not to improve it's own status. I'm not saying everyone should hold hands and shit rainbows when someone posts, but a little common courtesy goes a long way when people are looking for answers they can't find elsewhere.

[Varizen]

Feng pretty much said it. The contests met with some early success, but it faded extremely fast, and with the loss of Mort, it's not going anywhere soon.

[Dyire]

I think, in regards to the guides and info pages for XI, the effort was kind of hampered with the advent of FFXIclopedia. Having a centralized resource, where a proper wiki system was in place for user-based editing, led to more consistent and up-to-date database of information. Our old forum backend was also ungodly slow and had severe limitations with different kinds of pages. Everything had to be managed from a top level admin (aka Wiggles) and then eventually our small crew of mods.

With this new IP.Board system, we have more freedom with the types of plugins and addons we can slap onto the interface. Partially for this reason, you can find a lot of other FF forums popping up and using IP board. Wiggles is still looking into the Wiki board plugin and we're still finalizing how to go about implementing it.

The one thing that I'm personally worried about is the sheer over-abundance of "wiki" like databases on FF14. Due to the success of FFXIclopedia during FF11's era, wikis are like a dime a dozen on other sites. This just means there is less centralization of community contributed data and so the newest findings are fragmented and eventually "stolen."

So where does that leave KI?
I feel that we should at least implement an item and ability database (for easy referencing in the forums and other pages) and focus on user submitted guides for their own take on how to beat a quest/monster. One example could be my festival guides that I would write for XI. By centralizing these guides, people who want to share their helpful insight can do so in their own manner and other users can pick and choose the best ones to follow.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Xani]

You're both such freaking downers. No one comes to KI because KI isn't advertised anywhere! And when new people do come here, it's straight to the forum to be told to go fuck themselves on their first post.
It isn't the mod's fault that people are assholes, but it is their fault that KI is drowning, and they could do something about it by making it less forum-devoted and more gameplay based, like it used to be. I'm not saying forget about the forum, but make the other half of the site more appealing, and occasionally advertise (wiki currently has advertisement space) and new people will come. Jesus, how do any of you expect the place to gain new members if we're all stuck in the shit KI's been pouring out for the last few years.
If I could update the damn site myself, I would.

[Xani]

Dyire, on 21 September 2010 - 05:45 PM, said:

I feel that we should at least implement an item and ability database (for easy referencing in the forums and other pages) and focus on user submitted guides for their own take on how to beat a quest/monster. One example could be my festival guides that I would write for XI. By centralizing these guides, people who want to share their helpful insight can do so in their own manner and other users can pick and choose the best ones to follow.

+1 for that.

[Dyire]

Xani is right.
Content brings newcomers and fresh blood, whether or not its in a Wiki form or in the forums. The community's general aura is what keeps them around. Cliques that have interesting personalities are an example.

[Wildstriker]

They will come once there's some sort of drama in the new FFXIV servers which is bound to happen.


I think you should focus on FFXIV in terms of items and such if that game is somewhat successful.


Also, ban the trolls. I am all for flaming and such since camaraderie might actually discourage participation from newcomers, but keeping people like Albela around is retarded.

This post has been edited by Wildstriker: 21 September 2010 - 05:56 PM

[Xani]

Wildstriker, on 21 September 2010 - 05:54 PM, said:

I think you should focus on FFXIV in terms of items and such if that game is somewhat successful.

KI has always been a FFXI-related site. I mean, add stuff about FFXIV by all means - to make it diverse - but don't drop the FFXI side because FFXI-2 is coming out.

[Wildstriker]

Also, at least for me, the fact that KI was the place to go to if you wanted to flame others on your server is what got me into this. That's why most of my posts are in Asura even though I haven't actively posted there since 2007.

[Wildstriker]

Xani, on 21 September 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

KI has always been a FFXI-related site. I mean, add stuff about FFXIV by all means - to make it diverse - but don't drop the FFXI side because FFXI-2 is coming out.

FFXIAH.com, allakhazam.com, wiki and BG all have better reputations for being FFXI databases. Having said that, I did not mean add FFXIV things to the exclusion of FFXI data.

This post has been edited by Wildstriker: 21 September 2010 - 06:00 PM

[Xani]

Ah, I see what you mean.
I'm just for updating KI in general. Dying KI is dying.

[firefeng]

I would strongly support a more centrally moderated item database like you're suggesting, Dyire, I just never would have suggested it because that's more work for you and the mods here, and you ain't getting paid for it.

Quote

No one comes to KI because KI isn't advertised anywhere!

That's because most anyone who plays FFXI knows about Zam, FFXIclopedia, KI, FFXIAH, and Bluegartr already. Your problem isn't so much with KI's advertisement, as it is the fact that FFXI itself doesn't have new blood to hunt out said sites. To be honest, so far as FFXI forums go, KI has both ZAM and BG beat in regards to forum layout and presentation. The only thing that's lacking is the population. A centralized database, if it's cleanly and rationally set up, would go miles to alleviate this, but at the same time it could end up as another wholly unused link on the side of the page, on which mods have spent weeks upon weeks of time building only to go unused.

However, if done right, it could potentially loop in a great many more forum-goers. BG is popular because of the quickness with which information becomes available, but so far as actually finding specific information goes, it is a wretched, nigh unusable, source of information.

Quote

That's another thing, too. There is way too much trolling by idiots on here as well (hai2u Banter and Albela)

Derock provides useful information in between his troll posts, and Albela...doesn't even provide entertainment. The only problem with your suggestion is that you cannot moderate attitudes without stepping on too many people's toes, and I guarantee you any attempt to do so will spell the quick death of KI.

[Aleera]

I agree with Dyire, the site should have more user-based guides and such implemented. I forever look for information about certain things (like how certain macros should be set up for things, info about new gear, etc.) and can never find it, mostly because people just aren't taking the time to post about it or if someone does, other users start trolling or flaming horrendously for asking questions, like they should already know the answers.

I don't mind the site being XIV based as well, but still keep the focus on XI. If anything, KI should have a sister site where we can get a fresh new start on things and keep a better control on the quality of it's forums and information boards. I know it'd be a lot of work and we already have XIV boards here, but a fresh new start wouldn't be a bad idea, either.. Could still keep the XIV boards here, but maybe a new community site might be a fresh start some of us have been looking for. One with strict rules about trolling and flaming, and encourage people to post new info and guides to quests and stuff on there. It's a bit of a pipe dream, but just some food for thought..

[Corrderio]

Give it time and hopefully people will come back when XIV rolls out.

Also Dyrie...

1. When do I get to be a mod? D:
2. When are we updating the content on the site? If we're not we should just remove it. No offense, but most of our stuff is outdated and hasn't been updated in years.

[Xani]

Corrderio, on 21 September 2010 - 06:16 PM, said:

2. When are we updating the content on the site? If we're not we should just remove it. No offense, but most of our stuff is outdated and hasn't been updated in years.

You basically summed up my entire POV.

[Wildstriker]

Aleera, on 21 September 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

I don't mind the site being XIV based as well, but still keep the focus on XI.

If you're going to argue this, you need to suggest how KI is to lure in XI players when BG has a monopoly over new information, FFXIAH has a monopoly over server forums and server disputes, and wiki's vast amounts of data trump anything KI can output without some major overhaul. Keep in mind, most XI players aren't going to be new either or are going to be preoccupied with XIV for a few months, if not years.


Edit:
Also, how many of you actually play FFXI consistently enough to actually be of any expertise on compiling or analyzing data? Mod-approved data lists simply won't work due to the vast amounts of data one has to compile for XI nowadays if you want to even compete with wiki (bg-wiki or ffxi wiki).

This post has been edited by Wildstriker: 21 September 2010 - 06:25 PM

[Aleera]

firefeng, on 21 September 2010 - 06:06 PM, said:

Derock provides useful information in between his troll posts, and Albela...doesn't even provide entertainment. The only problem with your suggestion is that you cannot moderate attitudes without stepping on too many people's toes, and I guarantee you any attempt to do so will spell the quick death of KI.

He does, occasionally, but in between the few useful posts he makes is nothing but useless, unnecessary crap. It's irritating to wade through 5+ posts cause he likes to spread his typing out and he's not even contributing. I know we can't moderate attitudes, per se, but enforcing a set of rules to keep rude behaviour away from people posting for help would be nice. BG is balls when it comes for finding info, their forum structure is atrocious, the only thing I go there for is when they .dat mine new gear from the updates. It might kill KI, but honestly, if the only thing keeping the site alive is assholes being assholes, that's pretty sad.. That's what needs changing most.

[Dyire]

Xani, on 21 September 2010 - 06:23 PM, said:

You basically summed up my entire POV.

I share the same sentiments, but such drastic changes are a little beyond my own decision. I'm hoping this topic will help kick start the discussions (in general)