[Corrderio]

Quote

Oh, and if anyone makes Corrderio a mod, I will hunt you down and feed you your own spleen laced with arsenic. Then I'll feed you to your kids, or pets, or neighbours, depending on availability.

For the love of god someone do it xD

[Aleera]

treelo, on 21 September 2010 - 07:54 PM, said:

So long as you completely ignore the THF forums (or better yet, just change the name to treelo's den) I really couldn't care less what you do. I think the same applies to most the people who come here and aren't actively taking part in the forums. Like it or not, KI has acquired it's reputation and you'll find it hard to shake that. Granted, my initial visits here were for information, but it soon became apparent that this was drama central. Very few people I've spoken to over the years come here for information, they come here to read people screaming at one another for any number of reasons. They came for the server forums primarily, to read about the latest happenings in pointless HNM drama. As the key players across every server eventually tired of the game and left, the key selling point died with them. So naturally the chaos spread to other sections, reducing the job specific forums to a stomping ground for trolls and a handful of newbs genuinely seeking help. When they got tired of being laughed at, they stopped coming. Now you find activity limited to a small section of the forums, which people still come to read.

To be quite honest, if you're thinking of updating the FFXI sections, you're barking up the wrong tree. BG and the like have built their reputation on being primary sources of the latest information as far as theorycrafting goes, and attempting to compete with FFXIclopedia in terms of information is no small undertaking. That's not to say they're necessarily bad ideas, but you'd be much better off spending the time and effort on the FFXIV sections. If you really want to introduce new blood, you'll find it much easier to make a positive impression on people with no preconceptions of what KI is all about. You've already noticed a resurgence of old faces returning to co-ordinate their efforts on FFXIV, they're not here for FFXI stuff. I've only skimmed the thread, but nobody else seems to have mentioned any of this yet.

As far as moderation and the like, you're incredibly lax about it. It pains me to say it, because hey, I'd probably have been banned a long time ago if you weren't. The same names pop up in discussion frequently when it comes to this subject, yet nothing is done about it. There is the "trolling" most of us partake in, and then there is just plain trolling; I get the feeling the mods (when they're actually online) have lost sight of this boundary and are far too scared of stepping on toes to do anything about it. Get rid of them.

Oh, and if anyone makes Corrderio a mod, I will hunt you down and feed you your own spleen laced with arsenic. Then I'll feed you to your kids, or pets, or neighbours, depending on availability.

Maybe you're right, maybe the XI boards of KI are too far gone to be saved and our focus should be that of XIV's release and new info. But if we do maybe my idea of a sister site away from here is best.. Separate the community we want away from the community we have now that exists, and just begin over again, if it can't be salvaged.. I've been visiting this site not long after I began my FFXI career back in '04, looking up quests and info and perusing forum threads for news and tidbits. But then wiki came about along with BG and with KI becoming a drama fest like you said, it's value as a site for information deflated. Just a shame.. I've found KI a home, as I'm sure many others have, over the years, and hate to see it in this state.

[Typo 5]

Came for the drama, stayed for the cats~

[Dyire]

I touched base with Wiggles and he is pretty much on par with my thoughts. We've had a few projects coming along and I just added my load onto the list, essentially.

I've got lots of internet stress to filter through now, all cause I lav yew guise!

[Aleera]

Dyire, on 21 September 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

I touched base with Wiggles and he is pretty much on par with my thoughts. We've had a few projects coming along and I just added my load onto the list, essentially.

I've got lots of internet stress to filter through now, all cause I lav yew guise!

[Corrderio]

Dyire, on 21 September 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

I touched base with Wiggles and he is pretty much on par with my thoughts. We've had a few projects coming along and I just added my load onto the list, essentially.

I've got lots of internet stress to filter through now, all cause I lav yew guise!

Good, anyway if you want me to put together a list of threads we need to unsticky I can if you want.

[treelo]

Aleera, on 21 September 2010 - 08:22 PM, said:

Maybe you're right, maybe the XI boards of KI are too far gone to be saved and our focus should be that of XIV's release and new info. But if we do maybe my idea of a sister site away from here is best.. Separate the community we want away from the community we have now that exists, and just begin over again, if it can't be salvaged.. I've been visiting this site not long after I began my FFXI career back in '04, looking up quests and info and perusing forum threads for news and tidbits. But then wiki came about along with BG and with KI becoming a drama fest like you said, it's value as a site for information deflated. Just a shame.. I've found KI a home, as I'm sure many others have, over the years, and hate to see it in this state.

A separate site is completely redundant. A "simple" reworking of the front page (today is the first time I've looked at it since... 2006?) along with a reorganisation of the forum sections (condensing FFXI sections, putting FFXIV areas at the top, etc) would essentially point the whole site in a new direction without losing the format that stomps all over the other popular sites. There are already tabs at the top that break up the site into basically new stuff, largely pointless stuff, and "our" stuff. Yet they're all geared towards the forums, I don't think I've ever looked at the members list or the gallery and it's always mystified me why they're given such a prominent place on the site. I doubt anyone wants to go to all the effort of creating a new site from scratch when the old one works well enough. Any information outside of the forums (which is why 90% of the people come here) is practically impossible to find without jumping back to the front page. Not the best thing when you're planning to place more focus on providing easy access to relevant information, though this is coming from someone who types ki into firefox and gets directed straight to the main forum page. What your "average" user wants is a mystery to me. I suggest if you want to find out, you give them some way of telling you on the front page. Preferably away from the trolls. While the thread is a great idea for finding out what we want, I thought the idea was to bring in new people.

For those saying the site is stagnant, I tend to disagree. It's certainly died down significantly over the years, but that's because people stopped playing the game and you need to be incredibly thick skinned to subject yourself to the level of abuse we subject one another to on a daily basis without FFXI there to unite us. I spent years destroying the THF forums, and nobody even tried to stop me (the one time I was threatened with a ban, it wasn't even a real ban, and it was just for posting in a server forum that wasn't my own.) Similar things happened across the board, when moderation is actually needed, either nothing happens, or an ill advised decision is made that borders on extreme. Locking a thread or moving it to FW seems to be about the only thing your mods are capable of, when people are banned (very rarely) it isn't even enforced properly and they simply reappear days, weeks, or months down the line to piss people off for years without consequence. These are all parts of the problem, I'm certainly forced to restrain myself when it comes to posting inflammatory remarks/threads in FW because I might piss someone off and get the thread locked for no apparent reason (other than I pissed someone off, which is kind of the point.) With things how they are at the moment, there is practically no need to moderate the forums at all, and yet they still manage to balls it up at every turn. All of that aside though, I'm half with Aleera in blaming ourselves for the supposed downfall, nothing interesting is going on because we have nothing interesting to say, or can't say it for various reasons.

In the end, things are picking up slowly. All it takes is for someone to act upon this. I seem to recall someone saying that putting the word out is pointless, yet that couldn't be further from the truth. You've got a whole bunch of people about to start playing XIV who have no idea what KI is, and your chance to reel them in is fading with each passing moment.

EDIT:

Quote

I I touched base with Wiggles and he is pretty much on par with my thoughts. We've had a few projects coming along and I just added my load onto the list, essentially.

I've got lots of internet stress to filter through now, all cause I lav yew guise!

I think I've cracked the code.

This post has been edited by treelo: 21 September 2010 - 09:59 PM

[Corrderio]

Quote

A separate site is completely redundant. A "simple" reworking of the front page (today is the first time I've looked at it since... 2006?) along with a reorganisation of the forum sections (condensing FFXI sections, putting FFXIV areas at the top, etc) would essentially point the whole site in a new direction without losing the format that stomps all over the other popular sites

Agreed, the KI Related Discussion should be put at the top, or at least the Front Page news/Announcements section.

[Aleera]

Reformatting the front page/forums to focus on XIV is probably the best idea. I just figured we could make a separate site to kind of leave this mess behind and start anew, but I could see it being a huge ordeal to just make a whole new site, even if we just copy/pasta'd the forums formats and everything and just re-skinned it a bit.

This post has been edited by Aleera: 21 September 2010 - 10:07 PM

[Banter]

Didn't read much because I just came on this thread, so if I'm over lapping someone's thoughts just ignore.

The biggest thing that killed the population here was the ridiculous load times the site had for so long. If that had gotten nipped in the butt earlier, I really think KI would have a much larger regular user base than it does right now.

Going through the server / job forums / etc and taking out the shit stickies would help. Giving Abyssea a section would be nice too, and why does einherjar have its own while salvage is merged with assault and besieged? Not that people will be doing a lot of the last few events in short time. For that matter, why do all of the events people rarely do (chocobo etc) get big pictures and everything, while the events people will most likely come here to get information on (salvage, abyssea etc) are all merged? I could be a little biased on this one, but the majority of people who are looking up information about an MMO on a forum are interested in end game.

Could also get rid of the horrible social network aspect from the front page, if not altogether. It's really doing nothing at the moment more than making KI look like it's trying too hard.

But really, the site layout is great. I love the specific job and server forums and how easy it is to navigate around the site without looking overly cluttered (aside from the stuff on the right). Also, it's really quick now.

[Banter]

Corrderio, on 21 September 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

Good, anyway if you want me to put together a list of threads we need to unsticky I can if you want.

I'd be willing to help with this too.

[Xani]

Oddly, I agree with Banter.
This place just needs a clear out - move stuff to archives if you don't want to delete it. Get rid of threads that are old & no one is using any more, tidy the place up.
I have to agree, we're missing a huge audience with the lack of FFXIV stuff, and I like the idea of re-jigging things to suit new content.

I don't want KI to die, and I don't want to have to leave because it's the same old thing day in and day out. And I'll be damned if I'm forced to move over to BG.

This post has been edited by Xani: 22 September 2010 - 05:49 AM

[MrReinhardt]

If anybody should be a mod it's Varizen. He's one of the people who actually post something productive rather than to just get their post count up. I was a mod on a few forums but they had a lower member base. The posting rules need to be revamped as well, they seem unfair for some users. There should be a seperate forum for politics or political discussions. Could probably just delete the old flame wars archive.

edit- could we also get a auto spell-check/grammar-check option so we can read some people's incoherent posts?

This post has been edited by MrReinhardt: 22 September 2010 - 09:36 AM

[Banter]

MrReinhardt, on 22 September 2010 - 09:35 AM, said:

edit- could we also get a auto spell-check/grammar-check option so we can read some people's incoherent posts?

oh god yes

[cidbahamut]

I lurk because treelo and path are entertaining. That's about all KI has going for it honestly.

[Corrderio]

Banter, on 22 September 2010 - 03:13 AM, said:

Going through the server / job forums / etc and taking out the shit stickies would help.

I was talking to Dyrie about this last night and I'm already putting a list together to remove stickies that are outdated, incomplete, servered their purpose, etc.

Right now I'm working on a list of stuff that should be removed, see what the mods/fiends think, then we unsticky them with a list of what we removed so if the community wants something back up they can say so.

[Banter]

Dyire should update his thread more often.

[Corrderio]

Okay I'm going to ask this just to help make my life easier, but in the XI job threads anyone want to link me some topics that should be removed from the stickies for being outdated/etc?

General Guidelines I'm looking for.

1. OP and OP only.
-It should be the authors job to keep the OP up to date, if it's not, I say trash it.

2. Is the OP still active?
-With the recent increase in level caps equipment can and will change. And with some of the stickies being wrote by people who don't come on KI often anymore they'll be outdated soon.

3. Is the information still up to date?
-Pretty obvious, if the information is now out of date/misleading, no reason to be a sticky.

[Xani]

I'll check out the BST forums for ya Corrdy.

EDIT:
Here we go, There aren't a terrible amount of stickies in there anyways, but almost all of them are outdated or derailed.
BST:
sticky 1 Outdated, no recent updates on OP. OP (Odeken) hasn't posted in it since 2007. Couple people asking for more info.
sticky 2 Also outdated. Thread hasn't been posted in since 2008.
sticky 3 Last post in Nov 2009.
sticky 4 Just.... pointless. Last post Feb 2009.

This post has been edited by Xani: 25 September 2010 - 06:46 AM

[Banter]

From some forums I browse

DNC
Dancer Food's OP hasn't been updated in a long time and I don't believe the poster even posts. Some of it is still semi useful but overall it's out of date, hard to read and the info isn't that good.

So you think you can dance? It's actually a really good guide, but I know that Armell doesn't post on KI anymore so it's going out of date.

DRK
Dark Knight Equipment Guide^^ Updated: 50% URLs Fixed Complete trash, hasn't been updated in 2 years.

Guide to being a DRK. Information is outdated and very random / unfocused. It's been about 5 years since it was updated too

DRG
A compendium of end game polearms. Good for its time, but very outdated.

Gearing as you go Semi-useful leveling guide, but hasn't been updated in forever and the OP no longer posts again.

Dragoons in ballista: You ask, I'll answer. Same story, no updates, no op.

New Unofficial endgame equip(ares added 12/22/06) 06? lol

MNK
Ballista Gear Guide for Monks Information is still semi useful in it, but OP is gone and no updates.

Gil and Monks Path still posts, but the OP could use a once over. Wouldn't remove this so much as give it a quick refresh.

Monk Food List No op, no updates

edit: i'll post more later

This post has been edited by Banter: 25 September 2010 - 04:38 PM