[Aleera]

Banter, on 27 September 2010 - 12:17 AM, said:

This contradicts itself

I don't see how. It's not like I'm saying, "Well, I guess we can get a SMN since we can't get a BRD... ", I'm saying, "Ok, well there's no more BRDs, but there's a SMN, I can get that instead (and be happy.)"

[Kaparu]

Patrick:

Mediocre has as very wide spectrum of meaning for someone in my position. As far as the general playerbase is concerned, I'm actually quite well off, but compare me to some of red mages in my linkshell, and I fall noticably short in "shiny". Granted, the differences aren't debilitating(things like Dalmatica instead of Morrigan's), but its still plain as day.

My lack of posts on this forum isn't a reflection of my playtime. I've actually been able to increase it pretty drastically as of late. I just spend most of my forum-going time on BG these days.

This post has been edited by Kaparu: 27 September 2010 - 01:37 PM

[Banter]

Aleera, on 27 September 2010 - 08:31 AM, said:

I don't see how. It's not like I'm saying, "Well, I guess we can get a SMN since we can't get a BRD... ", I'm saying, "Ok, well there's no more BRDs, but there's a SMN, I can get that instead (and be happy.)"

What you basically said was, I don't accept less than the best, unless I accept less than the best.

[Aleera]

Banter, on 27 September 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

What you basically said was, I don't accept less than the best, unless I accept less than the best.

I never once said "I don't accept less than the best", learn to fucking read. I said I aim to get the best I can, and if I don't, I get what I can and can be happy with it.

[Banter]

Aleera, on 26 September 2010 - 08:44 PM, said:

I'm not in any way settling for less than the best

Ok

[fyreus]

Kaparu, on 24 September 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

No group(familiar with that word? It has a lot to do with teamwork, which subsequently has a lot to do with putting selfish notions aside) gives a damn what you think is fun. People go to Abyssea because they want EXP, merits, or drops, and aside from less than a handful of fights, summoner is garbage for accomplishing all of those.

Cry to someone else because the job you find to be the most enjoyable has no actively relevant purpose. I'm sure all the ninjas, blue mages, scholars, and beastmasters would love to join in on a good depression-session.

I know you only post flame bait these days and nothing actually logical to anyone but yourself, but based on your recent posts here i gotta wonder if you even play anymore lol. Oh, welcome back to FFXI btw.

-We all know blu is doing 2h WS damage and higher (for every 2k+ ws you show me, you'll see higher blu damage shot for shot lol) and more. I know some shell leaders superimpose their view of things onto members so i'm wondering if this is the case here.

-Sch... it's still on the heels of blm and SE is doing all they can to make blm stand out more.

-Bst primarily solo/duo and are successful at that, so why are they even mentioned? We're talking group/partys here, no?

-Nin i don't see much of, but i did have a guy on nin/war in my pt last night who had been hitting +90dmg/150ish+ crits and had DW+24% haste gear + haste and every other 2hander was hitting 200-280s in salvage/vnm/homam parts so it's not hard to see him smoking them without any trouble.

I don't know... I just heard they were less than optimal or efficient jobs or one of those words so we should ignore all that and invite something we're told to, right?

Know who could use a good depression session? Those who haven't been playing the game lately.

What people have to realize is that this isn't lv75 and the same rules don't apply. We have enough things that are close to our level that many are well off or way better off than before. This game at the moment should be properly analyzed before making statements because that's how we end up with such terrible job stigma that shouldn't be there in the first place.. with the exception of short sights on behalf of SE... Spreading misinformation for the 'heck of it' or anything close ruins it. Please... don't turn KI into FOX news.

This post has been edited by fyreus: 27 September 2010 - 03:15 PM

[Kaparu]

BLU is still trash, Eflux didn't change that. Get back to me when their primary source of damage is improved by haste.

BLM is for CC, not damage, and SCH can't touch BLM in that department.

BST, lol.

DNC is competitive to NIN in DD, with the added bonus of being able to heal better than any other job in the game.

[Kaparu]

And fuck if I care what you do events on. The only thing that annoys me is when people try to play poorly designed jobs off as if they're just as good as readily available alternatives.

[pathwriter]

How is Blue Mage's primary form of damage not improved by Haste, exactly? Granted, the recast timers on a lot of their core spells are low, but the stronger ones are able to be cast far more often with Haste and, frankly, MP issues are sort of a thing of the past, especially in Abyssea.

Except that they're tied to strategems (which is only really an issue if trying to bounce back and forth between Light and Dark Arts), I fail to see how Black Mage is a better controller than Scholar. I can see how having Sleepga II not being tied to Sleep II's recast is helpful, especially with how Manifestation increases recast time, but being able to use Bindga or Graviga when things go bad is helpful. I suppose a Black Mage could do the same subbing Scholar, but I can't remember the last time I saw a Black Mage sub anything besides Red Mage.

And while I'm the first to say that Ninja is underpowered, where Dancer can heal while bringing DPS, Ninja can tank. Most of the time you don't really need a tank as durable as a Ninja or Paladin, I'll grant you, but I also can't think of many times when I've really needed the healing power that Dancer brings. The two work well together, though, as Ninja doesn't have to sacrifice its support job to maintain the pseudo-invulnerability of Utsusemi and a competent Ninja should be able to hold aggro most of the time against heavier DD like Monk, Warrior, and Samurai. At least, I've been able to on Ninja.

Really, though, I've long since passed the point that Blizzard's developers have been promoting for a while now: Bring the player, not the class. There have been a lot of times that I've been called to show up on Ranger or Ninja and, in my mind, I'm thinking, "I'd be doing more for us if I was on Bard." But the reason I get put into one of my third-string jobs is that if I'm on Bard, then one of our less competent players would have to play something other than Bard and the end result would be a net loss. You emphasize group play a lot, but you operate from the assumption that all members of the group are equally adept and geared on all their various jobs. It doesn't work out that way, though. Actually, just behind Monk, my Bard is my best-geared job, and I almost never touch it for the reason I just gave.

What bothers me about your attitude, Kaparu, and I doubt I am alone in this, is that your devotion to efficiency seems to forget that other players are still people. You treat this game in a lot of ways as though it is Final Fantasy Tactics, whereby you find the best NPCs and channel them to their best job combinations to be able to take on the bonus dungeons or have an easier time with the last boss or whatever. In reality, though, FFXI is a game played by a lot of people and I strongly doubt that even your snobbish LS is populated exclusively by people who, in the name of efficiency, will play whatever job is needed and never play their preferred job without feeling at least a little annoyance and resentment. I get irritated that I don't get called upon to play Bard much, even though Monk is the job for which I'm best known and the one I prefer to play in most instances, so every so often, I'm allowed to play Bard (or White Mage or Ninja or Ranger). You can't treat other people like chess pieces and expect them to remain quiet on the subject forever.

[Tikki]

Kaparu, on 27 September 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

And fuck if I care what you do events on. The only thing that annoys me is when people try to play poorly designed jobs off as if they're just as good as readily available alternatives.

You say that, I say it's a different fucking job you fucktwat. I do different things in different ways. I am not a bard. I am not a corsair. I am not a dancer. I'm a goddamn SUMMONER. I'm a support/DD job. I have flexibility to conform to whatever situation is thrown my way and I'm damn good at what I do. I've turned some people who are firm believers in lolsmn into people who believe... lolsmn, except Tikki. I take pride in what I can do and you know what? You can just go back to your shell and wank your little rdm epeen. Because I know I'm good. gtfo the smn forum.

[rambus]

Kaparu, on 24 September 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

No group(familiar with that word? It has a lot to do with teamwork, which subsequently has a lot to do with putting selfish notions aside) gives a damn what you think is fun. People go to Abyssea because they want EXP, merits, or drops, and aside from less than a handful of fights, summoner is garbage for accomplishing all of those.

Cry to someone else because the job you find to be the most enjoyable has no actively relevant purpose. I'm sure all the ninjas, blue mages, scholars, and beastmasters would love to join in on a good depression-session.

black mages, not scholors.

to the people hatin on kap:
you forget you are talking about a game where most "good" ls , the LS that has the best and so on will kick you for starting trouble, QQing about "why i can't play my subpar job" is a good pet-peave.

but kap i think you have to consider that the cap is 85 now. I do not know everything about 85, but i am sure it makes things easier and people seem to care less about being XXX job since any 85 > past 75s and for the most part its still a level 75 game. before aht urhgan i would hands down agree with you, now those lines are not as easy.

before Aht Urhgan FFXI was not casual at all, it is you play as requested or gtfo, if you dont have the job the ls needs you are not invited

dont dare say that game was "fun" before then, you did things as "work" and "worked" for gear and was anti casual.

This post has been edited by rambus: 27 September 2010 - 07:41 PM

[Banter]

pathwriter, on 27 September 2010 - 03:41 PM, said:

stuff

I just wanted to say, most people within our LS are versatile enough so that when someone wants to change jobs (to a still useful job), other people can swap around them and fill roles. For the longest time, I was the least versatile in the LS and I had 6 75 jobs at that point. Also, pretty much all of them are exceptional players.

This post has been edited by Banter: 27 September 2010 - 08:19 PM

[Aleera]

Banter, on 27 September 2010 - 02:51 PM, said:

Ok

Of course, if you take it out of context like that, but if you can stop being a twat for a second and realize what I'm trying to say is that I'm not picky, and it's not that I'm settling, I'm just choosing an alternative that's available and I'm perfectly fucking content with it.

[Kaparu]

Tikki, on 27 September 2010 - 05:51 PM, said:

You say that, I say it's a different fucking job you fucktwat. I do different things in different ways. I am not a bard. I am not a corsair. I am not a dancer. I'm a goddamn SUMMONER. I'm a support/DD job. I have flexibility to conform to whatever situation is thrown my way and I'm damn good at what I do. I've turned some people who are firm believers in lolsmn into people who believe... lolsmn, except Tikki. I take pride in what I can do and you know what? You can just go back to your shell and wank your little rdm epeen. Because I know I'm good. gtfo the smn forum.

Dear god, what aren't you understanding about specialization? I'm sure you're good at summoner, and I'm sure you can fulfill multiple roles just dandily, but that does not make your job exceptional at absolutely anything.

You can heal; someone else can heal better. You can DD; someone else can DD better. You can enhance; someone else can enhance better. Fuck my ideals, fuck my playstyle, fuck everything about me that you disagree with- summoner brings absolutely nothing to the table that some other job couldn't do better most of the time, which is strongly exemplified in Abyssea merit parties. That's fact. Get over it. Nobody cares how many tasks your third-string job can carry out at a time unless you can do at least one of those things better than someone else.

This post has been edited by Kaparu: 27 September 2010 - 08:33 PM

[pathwriter]

Banter, on 27 September 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

I just wanted to say, most people within our LS are versatile enough so that when someone wants to change jobs (to a still useful job), other people can swap around them and fill roles. For the longest time, I was the least versatile in the LS and I had 6 75 jobs at that point. Also, pretty much all of them are exceptional players.

I highlighted the important word here, though. Think very literally about what it means. My LS is a small group of relatively versatile (except one) players who are fairly competent and can generally take down most things we encounter, but we know our weaknesses and we have plenty of them. We're a more accurate representation of a small group of mid-to-high-end players.

[Banter]

Aleera, on 27 September 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

Of course, if you take it out of context like that, but if you can stop being a twat for a second and realize what I'm trying to say is that I'm not picky, and it's not that I'm settling, I'm just choosing an alternative that's available and I'm perfectly fucking content with it.

Alternative is one thing when it is on par, but SMN is not on par with anything.

[fyreus]

Kaparu, on 27 September 2010 - 03:08 PM, said:

BLU is still trash, Eflux didn't change that. Get back to me when their primary source of damage is improved by haste.

BLM is for CC, not damage, and SCH can't touch BLM in that department.

BST, lol.

DNC is competitive to NIN in DD, with the added bonus of being able to heal better than any other job in the game.

Hi, i'm getting back to you >_> Do you even play this game anymore? What does blm even CC anymore? lol dienamis?? I don't play sch but i thought there was t his ability that turns single spells into Ga (maybe sleep is restricted? idk) so i won't go any further on that. Efflux didn't change anything no, but it does allow me to push 4k dmg on nearly anything that walks/crawls/creeps. My point still remains: This isn't the lv75 version so things have changed and so should people's views over jobs they probably suck at anyway.

[Kaparu]

Dynamis and Abyssea? I'm not really sure where the "lol" came from. Its still incredibly lucrative. Multi-millions in currency, 5M Xarc/Beau equipment, more for attestations. I don't feel like I need to elaborate upon Abyssea, what with it being the virtual centerpiece of this game right now. And sure, Scholar is definitely a capable CC job, but Manifestation has a timer, and the ability itself rapes your spell recasts. Sleepga 1 and 2 have no such issues, while Mana Wall and Convert make the job nearly indestructible if used properly. I will admit that Blue Mage may be a bit better these days, what with the introduction of a 15/tick atma combination, self-refresh, and their own version of Sneak Attack on a 3 minute timer, but it still isn't even competitive with a competent monk.

Lastly, I don't know where all of this, "but we're level 85 now!" nonsense is coming from. The easier you make the content, the more every job excels. You're all talking as if its only the third and second-stringers that are benefiting from a level cap increase. The better jobs are still better than the worse jobs.

Also:

Figured I'd knock out the "you don't play" and the "your gear is atrocious" silliness in one screenshot.

This post has been edited by Kaparu: 27 September 2010 - 10:20 PM

[Aleera]

I realize SMN may not be on par with something like BRD, but it doesn't mean I would exclude it from a party because of that. If the SMN is worth their weight in salt, they'll still be nice to have around, regardless of your or Kap's opinion on it's usefulness. Path pretty much summed it up best; I don't see people as pawns in a chess game when it comes to anything, I see people on the other side and they want to have fun just as much as I do. I don't care for maximum efficiency, I can still effectively achieve my goals in game, and still have fun at it while allowing others to do so as well.

Color me crazy, but I get my money's worth each month having fun playing the way I do, and I'm sure you get your monies worth playing your way; to each their own. But there's really no need to judge how or why other people play or do things they way they do. I'm sure you don't go around in real life telling the people that work at your local walgreen's or target they could be effectively maximizing their paychecks if they quit their job and began working at a law firm, so don't go judging people for how they play in a game.


Edit: lol Chest games. :3

This post has been edited by Aleera: 27 September 2010 - 11:16 PM

[Tikki]

You said chest game. :3