[Abattoir Siren]

UchihaClan :
Why do people think that from 40-50 /mnk can't tank worth jack? I've done it in CN and I was able to chain 6 on VT crawlers and chain 5 on IT soldiers.

thank you. whats what people fail to realize. i hate nin tanks. they can't hold hate for shit.

[The-Buddah]

Abattoir Siren :
thank you. whats what people fail to realize. i hate nin tanks. they can't hold hate for shit.

Not exactly true, you're painting with a pretty wide brush there. The only thing is that most NINs now days try to play NIN as a DD, where as, if they replaced their STR rings and earrings with enmity gear, they hold hate VERY well.

But back to the topic of this forum <.<

In my oppinion, people who say WAR can't tank have never tried it, even post-60 WAR can be a good tank, though you may have to switch from your Hauby to your Lorica if things get iffy. (I know this from personal experience tanking WAR/NIN 66-68 in Bibiki Bay) You just have to know your charecter and spells/abilities....and don't be afraid to use Defender

[Palin]

The-Buddah :

Abattoir Siren :
thank you. whats what people fail to realize. i hate nin tanks. they can't hold hate for shit.

Not exactly true, you're painting with a pretty wide brush there. The only thing is that most NINs now days try to play NIN as a DD, where as, if they replaced their STR rings and earrings with enmity gear, they hold hate VERY well.

But back to the topic of this forum <.<

In my oppinion, people who say WAR can't tank have never tried it, even post-60 WAR can be a good tank, though you may have to switch from your Hauby to your Lorica if things get iffy. (I know this from personal experience tanking WAR/NIN 66-68 in Bibiki Bay) You just have to know your charecter and spells/abilities....and don't be afraid to use Defender

The OP is lvl 30, Nins haven't reach their full potential, hell they don't even have Ni.

And DD Nin vastly outhates a Enmity build Ninja.

[The-Buddah]

=/ Well I suppose it varies with the player, because the last few DD NINs I've played with...I got to tank. But I know a few NIN's who have a few Haste and damge equip, but Arhat's gear and Eris Earring's and I never have to worry about hate with them

[Druchii]

Grandviper :

allyourbasearebelongtous :
I sub thf and mnk just because i want to be different from all the /nin losers

Sometimes /NIN is useful, like fast chaining parties. Also Axe has more availibilities for chains, or so I've heard....

So... whats stopping you from using a Axe as /mnk /thf or /sam? Get a good shield (like balance shield of if you got the gil, vikings shield) and you can use Axe efficiently with any job. At some levels duel wielding Axes is actually gimping you.

[[Krol]]

I was wondering damage output of WAR/NIN (Dual Wield) versus WAR/THF (Great Axe+SATA), but after reading this post am I correct in saying that it's best to have /NIN, /THF, and /SAM all leveled to conform to what your party needs the most, regarding certain Skillchains?

At first I wanted to do the most damage, but then realized that's not what makes parties successful. Being able to contribute to what the party needs in order to push them to the maximum limit is what will get you the most in the end, right? Save the flashy weaponskill damage for Ballista and showing off on Boreal Hounds.

Answered my own question and left it kind of narrow for responses, but any feedback is always good.

[(Cetra)]

GG

[[Krol]]

Don't you love those little moments where you're typing a question (in this case, what does more leetz damage I wanna be ub3r is it WAR/NIN or WAR/THF), and you get a little epiphany and become all the wiser?

But just to make it interesting and maybe even spark a flame, out of /NIN and /THF in such a scenario as Ballista or beating up on low-defense mobs, which has the highest possible damage output?

[GigaRunner]

I am kind of surprised that subbing dragoon hasn't been mentioned. I know it seems strange to think of such a combination, but two years ago it was absurd to ever even sub ninja.

I mean, a dragoon's underrated abilities plus the utter strength of a warrior is pretty amazing when it is analyzed. People may think dragoon is weak by itself, but the job's amplified when combined with warrior.

You would be able to have attack and accuracy bonus stacked onto the abilities of a warrior. I don't really see the power that /nin has until dual weild II or Utsusemi: Ni. Sure subbing theif gives you Sneak Attack and such, but the damage in between is quite low (in a warrior sense) as compared to other subs.

When someone is trying to be a DD, subbing dragoon is really quite effective and can deliver some nice damage of time. I, myself, have subbed dragoon, and I deliver between 50-60 dmg per swing at level 31 without any food, attack, or strength enhancers.

I am just pointing out some interesting facets of subbing dragoon. Bear in mind that I am not cutting down any sub job. I am just comparing. Tell me what you think or try it out yourself.

[[Krol]]

GigaRunner :
I am kind of surprised that subbing dragoon hasn't been mentioned. I know it seems strange to think of such a combination, but two years ago it was absurd to ever even sub ninja.

I mean, a dragoon's underrated abilities plus the utter strength of a warrior is pretty amazing when it is analyzed. People may think dragoon is weak by itself, but the job's amplified when combined with warrior.

You would be able to have attack and accuracy bonus stacked onto the abilities of a warrior. I don't really see the power that /nin has until dual weild II or Utsusemi: Ni. Sure subbing theif gives you Sneak Attack and such, but the damage in between is quite low (in a warrior sense) as compared to other subs.

When someone is trying to be a DD, subbing dragoon is really quite effective and can deliver some nice damage of time. I, myself, have subbed dragoon, and I deliver between 50-60 dmg per swing at level 31 without any food, attack, or strength enhancers.

I am just pointing out some interesting facets of subbing dragoon. Bear in mind that I am not cutting down any sub job. I am just comparing. Tell me what you think or try it out yourself.

It makes a lot of sense. I remember arguing with someone (Yeah, in Valkurm) about this subject and they tried to say that Dragoon doesn't get an attack bonus at all or an accuracy bonus...I was too tired to get on a website and prove him wrong. I've seen screen shots on KI even of /DRG sub, and now I want to try it out myself. It seems like a good (and easy) alternative to subbing /NIN right when I get to level 20.
Just to be clear though, the enhanced Dual Wield trait is when your mainjob is somewhere in the 50's, if not right at level 50, correct?
Stuff like this makes me think more and more that /THF might not be the greatest subjob, but people force it to be just for the purpose of SATA picking up any slack in damage done. And that line up top, about earlier on having /NIN as a sub making people go "WTF" made me think of how my friend was saying that DRG is one of the highest DD classes in the game, people just won't accept it yet because they want Dragoon to be gimp, and don't want to be outdamaged by one.

[Emulsion]

Took war to 70 with /thf, finished off /nin for 75. These are the only two combos I use, and enjoy both.

Known a Galka War/mnk who played that combo for the most part to 70+, did quite well.

Each /sub is used for different occasions, all work to an extend, depending on what you're doing. ;o

[Anologue]

I'm almost considering the WAR/DRK combonation now. Just to try at least.

[Keyyaku]

Muffins :
No doubt, I was cackling hearing the story of the PLD's pride being crushed by this crazy, suicidal, Tarutaru WAR/DRK unleashing utter havoc.

sounds like a challenge to me.

i wanna see how i hold hate as pld with a war/drk in tow!

i did alright in onzozo with kappy, mofo blm did 2 AMs per fight...

[Sammonoske]

My 41 War/Mnk out dmgs War/Nins .... GAxe > Axe. You need to stop playing if you think War/Nins can tank anything 50+.

I lvl DRG.. as you can see.. Being SATA partner my parry and eva caps faster than most. This helps ME tank when I have to as War/Mnk. I evade and parry ALOT, not to mention Dodge helps aswell. Also, counter happens often for me.. which nulls even more damage. Then Boost = ws dmg and hate for tanking.

Ive tanked SO well, in CN, a whm nin and drk couldnt pull hate off several times. And that was a good pt..

[XyonBlade]

As mnk/war and war/mnk in the 30's iv been able to consistantly pull hate off of nin/war and war/nin tanks fairly easily, and thats even WITH SaTa hate being put onto them.

War/bst
War/drg
War/drk
War/pld
war/rdm
all seem viable options in addition to the stated /sam /thf /mnk /nin

to keep things positive, I'd say the least bennifitial (instead of saying the worst) would be war/smn (smn adds very little to war, and basicly no magical potential) war/brd (limited uses, would be nulled if you have a brd in the pt, and DoT with other subs is better) war/whm war/blm. So basicly the mage classes bar /rdm are not as bennifitial choices, and all other melee subjobs seem to have some purpose and bennifit which would merit their use.

Edit: and although I am happy to see that /nin has picked up, as when I started over a year ago I had the idea that "ninja would make a really great subjob for warrior", I am a little dissapointed that it has become the norm. Its gotten to the point (on my server) where I almost cant get invites because they'l ask if I have /nin level'd and I say "no" and then they pass me up for somebody who does. Its good, but its not always the best choice, and all depends on use, gear, and situation. Certainly not the be all and end all.

Oh well, I'm a very good war even without /nin so it's their problem they dont want my higher damage, heh.

[Cartesius]

WAR/BRD TILL LVL 20 ftw

http://files.filefront.com/WAR_brd_soloavi...;/fileinfo.html

[Edgeofdeath]

>.> I'm still amazed some people still don't know that war/nin isn't a very good DD combo till 50+... But it is -the- most popular job combo on my server. There's reason for that. The reason is simple (and expensive!) Utsusemi: Ichi. 2 war/nin's in a pt mean that you can keep Berserk up while duo-tanking, so its like having a -really- good pld and a -really- good rng or drk in your pt at the same time. And even if you have a nin or pld already in your pt, subbing /nin means you can have first voke for SATA without taking damage, which saves the healer that extra mp for longer chains. So yeah, /drk, /drg, /mnk* and /thf -will- out damage /nin pre rampage, war/nin will still be a hell of a lot more versatile...

War/mnk being the exception, its pretty much impossible to solo tank as a war/nin (unless your constantly hasted) as everything has double and triple attack. But war/mnk breaks down in a pt with another war/nin or nin/war, why take damage when you can use shadows? Thats not to say that every non /nin sj sucks-ass, many have useful purposes, but none are as versatile.

That being said, I, amongst many players I'm sure, wish SE never released ninja as an available job, or at least didnt make it the way they did. Why? Because on Remora everyfuckingone is subbing it. I've seen every /nin combo you could think of, and these people were exping. I've seen a blm/nin (Black mage fucking nin) soloing worms in qufim (dead on the ground). I've seen a rdm/nin at lvl 27 Dualwielding clubs in kazham. In fact, its impossible to get a pt invite as war with anything but /nin unless you go lfp all fucking night and someone finally gets 'desperate'. Don't get me wrong, nin is an awsome job, I'm just sick of seeing ppl use it for everything.

Also; As for war/drg, I've never tried it admittidly, but at lvl 45 I can see it going something like this... (Keep in mind my acc is fine, and I eat sushi, hit about 70-90 % of the time, depending on mob and the abilities it uses)

Edgeofdeath uses Jump, but misses the
/party Fuck
Edgeofdeath uses Jump, but misses the
/party FUCK
Edgeofdeath uses Aggressor, Accuracy is enhanced but evasion is lowered.
Edgeofdeath uses Jump, but misses the
/party brb, going to MH to switch sj.

Note; Example was used for comedic purposes, Drg is a great job, and they have really good accuracy. I'm not talking shit. But if you've ever lvled it you know Jump misses, ALOT.

[Amasai]

Im gonna do war/drk soon and i cant wait to get a poor zerked dammel fully buffed sppining slash or raging rush!!

[Teh Saivan]

Amasai :
Im gonna do war/drk soon and i cant wait to get a poor zerked dammel fully buffed sppining slash or raging rush!!

WHAT THE FUCK