[Kaparu]

Amastacia, on 10 November 2009 - 10:39 PM, said:

You, sir, are utterly full of shit.

I don't even know where to start.

He's pretty spot-on, actually. Pizza and a full-haste build is going to surpass meat and a hybrid build, unless you're able to maintain substantial accuracy while eating red curry(and for samurai, that's still questionable, given your TP and WS damage distribution and the nature of YGK).

[Amastacia]

I had a whole long thing typed out here, but in the end I just couldn't be bothered.

So we'll do the shorter version instead.

0) I don't deny that, in a perfect world, more Haste is better than less Haste. I only question whether the package deal is significantly better.

1) If the Acc on Ace's is useful, it's no-brainer better than Turban. At no normal amount of total Haste are you getting >3.5% marginal benefit adding 1% more.

2) He's hardly using a hybrid set, he is sacrificing 1% Haste only (leaving out Wyvern Earring, Dusk +1, and Speed Belt, as they're not precisely relevant).

3) His Acc is about capped on most things with GKT, and pizza is most likely already part of the plan for polearm.

4) Yellow Curry Buns give 5 STR and 30 Att more than pizza (5 STR being of not insignificant utility for WS). If the argument is "take off Acc, add Haste/Att", he's going to have a hard time adding 30 Att, and the WS damage loss from dropping the STR is doing no favors to adding 1% Haste. I can't be arsed to mathcraft the whole thing but we're talking fractions of a percentage point difference, which is silly.

5) Most importantly: I'm giving benefit of the doubt that the SAM being grilled has enough sense to use pizza when appropriate, and if the Acc from the pizza caps him, he might even be smart enough to swap to Turban.

[Ripebear]

With Hagun, I have started using Carbonara, it's fucking sweet. My gear accomodates this though and yes on non-bird camps I use pizza with Polearm, keep in mind taking tons of pizza around is fucking annoying on inventory space (Not that SAM is stacked like fuck, like BLM) and dying you lose 1-2H of it. With carbonara and a mean oshit setup, my survivability goes up a shit load (Having more HP than a MNK is great).

[Kaparu]

Pizza lasts three hours, why do you need to carry around excessive amounts? Carbonara is just silly.

And Amans, obviously I'm not suggesting using Ace's in the case of uncapped accuracy, but you should cap on most things with pizza, which is going to allow you to use full-haste(which is better).

[Ripebear]

Kaparu, on 11 November 2009 - 01:26 PM, said:

Pizza lasts three hours, why do you need to carry around excessive amounts? Carbonara is just silly.

And Amans, obviously I'm not suggesting using Ace's in the case of uncapped accuracy, but you should cap on most things with pizza, which is going to allow you to use full-haste(which is better).

Store TP+6, 175 HP, Attack +65, STR+4, is far from silly. I only started using it recently, and I still use Yellow curry buns, but I nearly never use Pizza with GK. Keep in mind the carbonara lets me melee in Sword strap, which is 3% Delay, or another acc ring, nevermind my HP been 1550. I dont really remember the last time I was having acc issues with GK either.

I dont use carbonara all the time, just when I know i'll be tanking a lot (Then usually using a second acc ring), Last limbus I did I must have been below 150 HP 3-4 times, and I didn't die once the whole run.

Your point is valid about Pizza of course, i'm just justifying using Carbonara. Since on stuff where you are easily capping acc with Hagun, you should be using Polearm and Pizza, or Polearm and Meat, accordingly.

[Kaparu]

Ripebear, on 11 November 2009 - 02:40 PM, said:

Store TP+6, 175 HP, Attack +65, STR+4, is definetely very silly. I only started using it recently, and I still use Yellow curry buns, but I nearly never use Pizza with GK. Keep in mind the carbonara lets me melee in Sword strap, which is 3% Delay, or another acc ring, nevermind my HP been 1550. I dont really remember the last time I was having acc issues with GK either.

You need drastically better support if 175 HP has that much practical application. Beyond that, 15 attack and 4 strength don't even begin to hold a candle to 40 accuracy, and Sword Strap is irrelivant, because going from 63% -> 64% haste is superior to -3% delay, and won't reduce your TP/hit.

[Ripebear]

Kaparu, on 11 November 2009 - 02:55 PM, said:

You need drastically better support if 175 HP has that much practical application. Beyond that, 15 attack and 4 strength don't even begin to hold a candle to 40 accuracy, and Sword Strap is irrelivant, because going from 63% -> 64% haste is superior to -3% delay, and won't reduce your TP/hit.

I still maintain a 6-hit with Sword Strap + Carbonara. Even when I swap to my Oshit set as long as the mob hits me. And yes healers aren't always as fast as you expect them to be. Also 40 acc is not 40 acc if your close to 95%.

[Kaparu]

Ripebear, on 11 November 2009 - 02:57 PM, said:

I still maintain a 6-hit with Sword Strap + Carbonara. Even when I swap to my Oshit set as long as the mob hits me. And yes healers aren't always as fast as you expect them to be. Also 40 acc is not 40 acc if your close to 95%.

I realize you maintain your 6-hit, I'm just saying that Pole Grip, Walahra Turban, and pizza will be better.

[Ripebear]

Kaparu, on 11 November 2009 - 03:00 PM, said:

I realize you maintain your 6-hit, I'm just saying that Pole Grip, Walahra Turban, and pizza will be better.

If your below 85% accuracy, yes of course. But if you're more than 90% it's a pretty close contest, just your statement before threw me a bit, saying that 1% haste would be more beneficial than -3% delay. (when keeping 6-hit)

Also no matter how good/fast your mages are your sometimes gona get hit with hard ass WS/AoE for 1000+, in that scenario, Carbonara is pretty nice. For example those Manticore at the end of one of the limbus, I have no idea which I think Temenos central or something, did a WS to me for 1100 with -26% physical damage taken and defender/Protectra V up.

[Kaparu]

Adding 1% haste to 63% haste(which, given any reasonable support, is what you should be at beforehand) is going to surpass -3% delay by itself, independent of all other variables. And there are quite a few ways to make use of 40 accuracy, even if you're in the 90% accuracy range.

EDIT: And I've solo'd NE Apollyon quite a few times, there's no reason to fight Hieracosphinx <.<

[Ripebear]

Well you seem to know what your talking about, so i'll take it on the head. But there's not much to change except Cuchulain's to Foragers (which is pretty insignificant considering out petty DoT) or Hauby to Askar, whereas if you had Usukane haramaki it shouldn't even be a consideration. And I prefer not to use Askar unless i'm farming or something and even then I cant be arsed to make a different setup. (Taking into account your already TP'ing in Walahra turban) Possibly Pcc/Ancient torque to Justice torque, but again attack/DoT isn't our strongest area.

Although that new One ring looks fairly interesting, I have to say. No idea if it's real or not.

[Kaparu]

It helps not to look at it as a means to being able to use things like Justice Torque Forager's Mantle. Look at those as added bonuses as being able to squeeze more haste out of your build.

[IronPandemonium]

HEY

USE POLEARM

[Aliadim]

IronPandemonium, on 11 November 2009 - 04:05 PM, said:

HEY

I'M BORING

<3

But seriously, I tire of polearm. I leveled SAM because I like Great Katana.

[Ripebear]

Aliadim, on 11 November 2009 - 04:27 PM, said:

<3

But seriously, I tire of polearm. I leveled SAM because I like Great Katana.

Have to agree I get bored of using Penta too, so I switch to GK sometimes, even at birds

[Deemos]

IronPandemonium, on 11 November 2009 - 04:05 PM, said:

HEY

USE POLEARM

HEY

GET

[Sheikh]

hey i got a free one of those!

[IronPandemonium]

Deemos, on 11 November 2009 - 11:26 PM, said:

HEY

GET

You can pay for school,

BUT YOU CAN'T BUY CLASS.

[RikenUni]

Sheikh, on 12 November 2009 - 07:07 AM, said:

hey i got a free one of those!

i would very much like to know how you did your sig.

[Aliadim]

RikenUni, on 12 November 2009 - 12:20 PM, said:

i would very much like to know how you did your sig.

Second.