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*note to mods, please sticky this*
Alright, after being on Killing Ifrit for a few years, I have decided it was time for me to get my sticky post for something useful.
Now, after the many debates from many people, over many threads, it has gotten to be rather annoying listening to people flaming each other over how Thf/(insert job here) is better than Thf/(insert job here).
I am asking experienced Thieves, to post intelligent responces here, about the subjobs you use. Looking for the main uses, advantages and disadvantages.
Note, not all people, that play one class of thief, have the knowledge of the other classes thief can be to a full potential. So it would be great to know what there is to certain combinations when they are brought on with the best possible gear for each type of situation.
For example.
I am a Thief/Ninja. I have noticed that the general use of the /NIN subjob was mainly survival, practicality to many situations, and the ability to customize your stats on an offhand dagger if you notice you are either lacking, or have too much of one thing, opening up options to make you that much more practical, enhance your damage, or your accuracy and attack speed.
Advantages[b]
Also, I have noticed that the advantage a /NIN has, is that we do gain TP rather faster than other combinations of subjobs. It makes pulling very easy, and lowers your downtime as for mages MP. It is great to use when soloing, rather than other subjobs that are available, due to your ability to survive with a lot of Evasion, and your two Utsusemi Spells which makes you that much harder to hit. You still have the availability to Bloody Bolts like other subjobs, which makes it even that much easier to keep yourself alive.
[b]Disadvantages
Please do note, as nice as /NIN is, you can only add so much to your offhand weapon, and thus you are limited to how hard you can actually hit. There are other abilities that other subjob selections can put you at a disadvantage in different situations.
So generally, /NIN has a great all around potential, which makes it that much easier to adapt to any situation, rather than rely on being a specialist in certain situations. /NIN is a great subjob to have leveled for many reasons as listed above, however, do not limit yourself to just /NIN. There will be times, that other subjobs are much nicer to use depending on the general strategy to your Alliance/PT uses for different events.
Thief Subjobs. Uses, Advantages, Disadvantages.
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#2
Posted 07 August 2005 - 06:33 AM
IMO, this is just going to turn to a thf/war vs thf/nin vs thf/rng war in a matter of time. It is plain and simple
thf/nin gets the most benefit from subbing a low delay offhand dagger to gain fast tp, while maintaing the respectable WS dmg with the mainhand dagger. Pulling with utsusemi is only beneficial to pt on a fast ruunning mob like tigers, raptors, big birds. Another thing that is good about utsusemi is when you start fighting things like efts, weapons where it does area dmg, you can save a lot of mage's mp.
thf/war gets the benefit from berserk and can give a very nice WS number. However, in order to keep up the TP gain that a thf/nin has, you are kind of forced to use a mid-speed or low-speed dagger (which usually has lower dmg base on dagger.) This will make the ws damage to go lower on non-berserk occation. thf/war puller is an mp sink if you even get hit once on any pull, and it will hit you on tigers, raptors most of the times. A mage can cure, but why should he? Area dmg is also an mp sink.
in my experience, i tried both subjobs, and i found thf/nin to benefit me more. One of the reasons is that the mob dies anyways after an SC, it doesn't matter if my WS is 700 or 900 dmg, because the MB will generally take it down to almost death anyways. Big number WSes are only for eyes, but in exp efficiency, i prefer /nin because mistakes can happen.
As for thf/rng, i never tried it. With the new patch, this option doesn't seem as viable because of the reduced dmg. TP gain will never be an issue for thf anyways, so i don't see the point.
Thf/sam seems viable for hnm, but in exp pt, i'd think thf/war would even benefit more than a slight TP gain from the sam sub, and a meditate every 3 min.
thf/nin gets the most benefit from subbing a low delay offhand dagger to gain fast tp, while maintaing the respectable WS dmg with the mainhand dagger. Pulling with utsusemi is only beneficial to pt on a fast ruunning mob like tigers, raptors, big birds. Another thing that is good about utsusemi is when you start fighting things like efts, weapons where it does area dmg, you can save a lot of mage's mp.
thf/war gets the benefit from berserk and can give a very nice WS number. However, in order to keep up the TP gain that a thf/nin has, you are kind of forced to use a mid-speed or low-speed dagger (which usually has lower dmg base on dagger.) This will make the ws damage to go lower on non-berserk occation. thf/war puller is an mp sink if you even get hit once on any pull, and it will hit you on tigers, raptors most of the times. A mage can cure, but why should he? Area dmg is also an mp sink.
in my experience, i tried both subjobs, and i found thf/nin to benefit me more. One of the reasons is that the mob dies anyways after an SC, it doesn't matter if my WS is 700 or 900 dmg, because the MB will generally take it down to almost death anyways. Big number WSes are only for eyes, but in exp efficiency, i prefer /nin because mistakes can happen.
As for thf/rng, i never tried it. With the new patch, this option doesn't seem as viable because of the reduced dmg. TP gain will never be an issue for thf anyways, so i don't see the point.
Thf/sam seems viable for hnm, but in exp pt, i'd think thf/war would even benefit more than a slight TP gain from the sam sub, and a meditate every 3 min.
#3
Posted 08 August 2005 - 12:03 AM
I'm not going to get into /nin versus /war. However, I am very experienced with thf/war.
Advantages
Damage. Plain and simple, thf/war hits harder with each swing, and his WS. Double Attack is nice, but nothing compared to Attack Bonus, Berserk, and Warcry. There have been some times where a tank has gone down or lost connection, and I've had to tank, simply because I have the hate-generating tools. It is rare, and does not work well, so don't rely upon it; it is not a good reason to sub /war. Most of the time, I couldn't get hate if I tried.
Disadvantages
TP. Unless there are silly things going on with weapon choices, a thf/war will get quite a bit less swings than /nin. Also, there are a few +acc daggers that can be used for the offhand, yet thf cannot equip the Balance Buckler. Sometimes you run into trouble with pulling, when things move faster than you do. I've never gotten quite killed this way, but it's come close. Defender helps, but does not fix this problem. It's pretty much inescapable from 58-63, and virtually nonexistant outside that range.
Overall, I would say /war is an excellent sub when you're fighting things without AoE, that move slow. It is particularly nice on high-defense mobs like Crabs. Even with sushi, I've only rarely hit for 0 on buffed mobs. It is amusing to use soloing, though generally less effective, as you have to rely more upon status bolts. I've died because I ran out of Blind Bolts in a fight. I can't say anything good about thieftanking in general; I've never been in a situation where I didn't have severe hate problems. Mostly, /war is good when you're not going to get hurt, and you want extra damage.
Advantages
Damage. Plain and simple, thf/war hits harder with each swing, and his WS. Double Attack is nice, but nothing compared to Attack Bonus, Berserk, and Warcry. There have been some times where a tank has gone down or lost connection, and I've had to tank, simply because I have the hate-generating tools. It is rare, and does not work well, so don't rely upon it; it is not a good reason to sub /war. Most of the time, I couldn't get hate if I tried.
Disadvantages
TP. Unless there are silly things going on with weapon choices, a thf/war will get quite a bit less swings than /nin. Also, there are a few +acc daggers that can be used for the offhand, yet thf cannot equip the Balance Buckler. Sometimes you run into trouble with pulling, when things move faster than you do. I've never gotten quite killed this way, but it's come close. Defender helps, but does not fix this problem. It's pretty much inescapable from 58-63, and virtually nonexistant outside that range.
Overall, I would say /war is an excellent sub when you're fighting things without AoE, that move slow. It is particularly nice on high-defense mobs like Crabs. Even with sushi, I've only rarely hit for 0 on buffed mobs. It is amusing to use soloing, though generally less effective, as you have to rely more upon status bolts. I've died because I ran out of Blind Bolts in a fight. I can't say anything good about thieftanking in general; I've never been in a situation where I didn't have severe hate problems. Mostly, /war is good when you're not going to get hurt, and you want extra damage.
#4
Posted 08 August 2005 - 01:08 AM
I would like to add something that I have noticed also with /War.
It comes in handy in high traffic areas with a lot of parties, Voke makes it a much easier pull sometimes.
Same goes for HNM camping and NM camping, /War will guarrante you a won pull, more than Steal or Mug will.
Note, Thanks guys for keeping this civilized, that was the whole intent on this thread.
It comes in handy in high traffic areas with a lot of parties, Voke makes it a much easier pull sometimes.
Same goes for HNM camping and NM camping, /War will guarrante you a won pull, more than Steal or Mug will.
Note, Thanks guys for keeping this civilized, that was the whole intent on this thread.
#5
Posted 08 August 2005 - 04:52 AM
Nejii :
I would like to add something that I have noticed also with /War.
It comes in handy in high traffic areas with a lot of parties, Voke makes it a much easier pull sometimes.
Same goes for HNM camping and NM camping, /War will guarrante you a won pull, more than Steal or Mug will.
Note, Thanks guys for keeping this civilized, that was the whole intent on this thread.
I would like to add something that I have noticed also with /War.
It comes in handy in high traffic areas with a lot of parties, Voke makes it a much easier pull sometimes.
Same goes for HNM camping and NM camping, /War will guarrante you a won pull, more than Steal or Mug will.
Note, Thanks guys for keeping this civilized, that was the whole intent on this thread.
Just wanted to point out that I read on the playonline website (Can't it find anymore... it's somewhere on that site) that using abilites, or magic, when a mob spawns, will cancel the drops that the mob drops. An unknown (to me) amount of time is needed before a pull with a spell or ability can be done with a successful drop. lol But you probably already knew this ^^;
#6
Posted 08 August 2005 - 06:55 AM
This would be a first to me, since I've claimed many ways, and have gotten great drops about 80-90% of the time, depending on what monster it is.
However, I think what you are referring to is actually the new claiming system, where when a monster pops, a certain amount of time has to pass before you can actually claim it, however if you use an ability or spell before you are actually able to claim, it will be like as if it casted and you would have to wait for the spell/ability to refresh before you can use it again, but you won't have claim on the monster.
Drop rates are really based on luck in the end, it has nothing to do with claiming with spells or abilities.
However, I think what you are referring to is actually the new claiming system, where when a monster pops, a certain amount of time has to pass before you can actually claim it, however if you use an ability or spell before you are actually able to claim, it will be like as if it casted and you would have to wait for the spell/ability to refresh before you can use it again, but you won't have claim on the monster.
Drop rates are really based on luck in the end, it has nothing to do with claiming with spells or abilities.
#7
Posted 08 August 2005 - 08:44 AM
I'd just say that although THF/WAR and THF/NIN are powerful and have their merits, in my limited experience taking Thief to 30, THF/NIN was the only way to get party invites.
#8
Posted 08 August 2005 - 11:34 AM
omg, you've been here for years, just look on this page to find all of /nin, /war/, /sam, /rng uses. Might have to look a page deeper for /monk, then post a sticky request with all of the information from them, and claim it's yours.
Bam. Done and dusted.
All this shit is gonna be or turn into is a bunch (to large number, optimisticly) of prats posting unverifiable information, unbackable 'facts', and generally optimistic wishing that bows to their subjob choice.
Here's a little thing the elitists and people will tell you about thief, and most other jobs:
Bam. Done and dusted.
All this shit is gonna be or turn into is a bunch (to large number, optimisticly) of prats posting unverifiable information, unbackable 'facts', and generally optimistic wishing that bows to their subjob choice.
Here's a little thing the elitists and people will tell you about thief, and most other jobs:
There is no single best choice for 30-75.
#9
Posted 08 August 2005 - 10:46 PM
just as nejii said thf/nin is the most adaptable thf/sub configuration. i will say thf/war is a good sub, but when your pting with 5 random strangers, who do you trust more...yourself or some noob whm who was probably pwr lvled till he was lvl 30? sure if your in a static pt and you know their playing styles and you know you won't need /nin, i'd say go /war all the way. fact is, however, that 90% of a thf's pts are going to be random pickup pts.
thf/nin - survivability, survivability, survivability. i'll never forget my first experience at "kiting" (for those of you that don't know, kiting is when you get the aggro of a mob and get it to chase you for a prolonged period of time). anyway, my pt was exping in bibiki bay killing dhalmel when a gob aggro'd. i promptly unlocked from the dhalmel and targeted the gob, who was attacking out nin. now in most cases you'd say "no problem, have the rdm or blm sleep it", well i was in a high exp pt and we were pulling 2-3 dhalmel at a time (i think pt setup was nin/war, thf/nin, rng/nin, rng/sam, rdm/smn, and blm/whm). i was able to kite that goblin all over bibiki bay, and was also able to get close enough to the mob at tod to collect my exp. i don't care what anyone says but thf/nin is the only job combo that could have pulled what i did off, well maybe another /nin job with powder boots...
thf/war - power. thf/war have a huge advantage in atk over thf/nin, /sam, /rng, and /mnk. if your in a static pt where your not main puller,(and you have enough acc, and not fighting bones) this is probably your best sub. pre-dual weild for /nin it's also the most popular sub, since most ppl lvl war first.
thf/sam - tp. this sub is great if your 1) a cheap ass, or 2) fighting hnm or gods. in pts your problem with tp can usually be solved with buying stupidly expensive acc gear. when fighting hnms or gods acc is usually not the problem, it's your atk; thus, the free tp you get from meditate is a god send and you look less noob in your hnm ls.
thf/rng - i've heard this can be good for hnms and gods. personally i just don't see it. sure sidewinder is a great ws, but it would just take too long to gain tp. i'll admit thf have decent agi and rng acc, but there's too much risk invovled. when your fighting something that big, you wanna be sure your going to dent it.
thf/mnk - bones. not only is this a great sub for lower lvls, but at lvls 70+ bones are great exp...esp if you get to mooch off of a mnk pt. it's also a good sub to help our lower lvl freinds with their lvl 50 cap items.
these are all of the subs i'd consider for exp/hnm/god situations. if your soloing, it's thf/nin or thf/whm onry.
thf/nin - survivability, survivability, survivability. i'll never forget my first experience at "kiting" (for those of you that don't know, kiting is when you get the aggro of a mob and get it to chase you for a prolonged period of time). anyway, my pt was exping in bibiki bay killing dhalmel when a gob aggro'd. i promptly unlocked from the dhalmel and targeted the gob, who was attacking out nin. now in most cases you'd say "no problem, have the rdm or blm sleep it", well i was in a high exp pt and we were pulling 2-3 dhalmel at a time (i think pt setup was nin/war, thf/nin, rng/nin, rng/sam, rdm/smn, and blm/whm). i was able to kite that goblin all over bibiki bay, and was also able to get close enough to the mob at tod to collect my exp. i don't care what anyone says but thf/nin is the only job combo that could have pulled what i did off, well maybe another /nin job with powder boots...
thf/war - power. thf/war have a huge advantage in atk over thf/nin, /sam, /rng, and /mnk. if your in a static pt where your not main puller,(and you have enough acc, and not fighting bones) this is probably your best sub. pre-dual weild for /nin it's also the most popular sub, since most ppl lvl war first.
thf/sam - tp. this sub is great if your 1) a cheap ass, or 2) fighting hnm or gods. in pts your problem with tp can usually be solved with buying stupidly expensive acc gear. when fighting hnms or gods acc is usually not the problem, it's your atk; thus, the free tp you get from meditate is a god send and you look less noob in your hnm ls.
thf/rng - i've heard this can be good for hnms and gods. personally i just don't see it. sure sidewinder is a great ws, but it would just take too long to gain tp. i'll admit thf have decent agi and rng acc, but there's too much risk invovled. when your fighting something that big, you wanna be sure your going to dent it.
thf/mnk - bones. not only is this a great sub for lower lvls, but at lvls 70+ bones are great exp...esp if you get to mooch off of a mnk pt. it's also a good sub to help our lower lvl freinds with their lvl 50 cap items.
these are all of the subs i'd consider for exp/hnm/god situations. if your soloing, it's thf/nin or thf/whm onry.
#10
Posted 08 August 2005 - 11:22 PM
Histasius :
omg, you've been here for years, just look on this page to find all of /nin, /war/, /sam, /rng uses. Might have to look a page deeper for /monk, then post a sticky request with all of the information from them, and claim it's yours.
Bam. Done and dusted.
All this shit is gonna be or turn into is a bunch (to large number, optimisticly) of prats posting unverifiable information, unbackable 'facts', and generally optimistic wishing that bows to their subjob choice.
Here's a little thing the elitists and people will tell you about thief, and most other jobs:
omg, you've been here for years, just look on this page to find all of /nin, /war/, /sam, /rng uses. Might have to look a page deeper for /monk, then post a sticky request with all of the information from them, and claim it's yours.
Bam. Done and dusted.
All this shit is gonna be or turn into is a bunch (to large number, optimisticly) of prats posting unverifiable information, unbackable 'facts', and generally optimistic wishing that bows to their subjob choice.
Here's a little thing the elitists and people will tell you about thief, and most other jobs:
There is no single best choice for 30-75.
OMG Forgive me for giving experienced people a place to put the advantages and disadvantages of Their subjob choice. Note, I can't speak for other job classes, so I leave it open for others that have experience to post their's, they know it better than I do.
Also, this isn't a thread about whats best. Its about whats best about what subjob and why. Please, if you have nothing valuable to add to the thread, go on some random /war>/nin thread and vent.
#11
Posted 09 August 2005 - 12:24 AM
One thing to add about thf/rng from what Rolling said. It's not about Sidewider, as we get crappy shortbows. Thieves can, however, use guns. From what I've seen, it's at it's prime 73-75. Thief can use the most damaging gun and bullet ever, the culverin/cannon shell. The trick, as near as I can guess, is not to spam /ra, but to gain TP with your knife. Every so often, you'll unload with Barrage or Slug shot with your 143-DMG weapon. If you know the optimal range, and have appropriate racc gear, (sushi probably goes without saying) it shouldn't be too terrible to land a potent Slug Shot that way.
#12
Posted 09 August 2005 - 04:07 AM
shit your right i totally forgot about the gub thingy (joke from woody allen movie "take the money and run", very fitting movie for any up and coming thfs).
Krogoth is absolutely correct, but the problem is gaining tp. if you eat rng acc+ food your acc is lacking, but if you eat acc+ food your rng acc is lacking. i know there are a ton of options out there to boost both stats, but the question is can we raise them enough? in most hnm lses i've seen it's practically manditory for a thf to sub sam in a god or hnm fight, because we do so little damage other than our ws in the sc. note i'm not saying most hnm lses have that set as a rule, i'm just saying any respectable thf is going to have that sub lvled as an option for gods and hnms.
Krogoth is absolutely correct, but the problem is gaining tp. if you eat rng acc+ food your acc is lacking, but if you eat acc+ food your rng acc is lacking. i know there are a ton of options out there to boost both stats, but the question is can we raise them enough? in most hnm lses i've seen it's practically manditory for a thf to sub sam in a god or hnm fight, because we do so little damage other than our ws in the sc. note i'm not saying most hnm lses have that set as a rule, i'm just saying any respectable thf is going to have that sub lvled as an option for gods and hnms.
#13
Posted 09 August 2005 - 07:32 AM
Oh, i forgot to add about the /rng a bit. I find /rng to have a rough time for EXP situation as may said. The range weapons and ammo choices are very limited for thiefs, and even with culverin/cannonshell, i wonder if your range acc will ever be enough. Thf has a much lower skill than the ranger, and the -range acc will hurt a lot, even with sushi.
One thing that I would say to a thf/rng that comes into my pt and wants to use slug/side as a WS instead of sharkbite/dancingedge is to have them leave, because we'd be better off getting a RNG than having a thf risking his missing ws, and provide lower damage as well.
One thing that I would say to a thf/rng that comes into my pt and wants to use slug/side as a WS instead of sharkbite/dancingedge is to have them leave, because we'd be better off getting a RNG than having a thf risking his missing ws, and provide lower damage as well.
#14
Posted 10 August 2005 - 03:33 AM
Even though this issue has been beat to death and beaten again for good measure, I'll give it a shot.
Thf/Nin -
- Superior pulling capability, useful for sprinter type mobs and if you’re a lazy or bad puller. Ninjitsu helps for AOE physical attacks as well; I guess this might be only applicable to fighting weapons at higher levels. As stated before Thfs are excellent mini tankers if the shit hits the fan during exp (assuming you'll be able to grab hate some way)
- Subtle Blow, somewhat surprised no one bothered to bring up how kick ass subtle blow is. Mob gets less tp off your dagger swings, makes life easier on your tank.
- Off hand weapon - Stat buffs rock, you get faster tp with duel wield trait. You will have more total swings on average per fight. I found tp to be not all that great for vb and de, but I do like the extra kick it gives sb. Duel wielding also allows you the luxury of wearing higher delay daggers (like Harpe) and not gimping your tp build to bad.
- Duel wielding daggers is cool and you know it.
War
- att bonus / zerk / warcry - with these mods you will be hitting harder.
- I don't list double swing as a positive because quite frankly duel wield kicks double swings ass.
Rng
- I use to believe this might be a viable option in some circumstances, but after the gimp to Rng attacks after the last patch, I don't see how this combination is useful at all.
Sam
- Store TP and Meditate - I've only used this combination messing around while farming, but I can't really even notice the store tp on my dagger swings, while meditating for 60 tp every 3 minutes seemed kinda crappy.
My Personal Opinion
- Ultimately, I think it boils down to safety and speed vs. raw damage. I do think /war is a viable sub in the sense that a good thief who plays thf/nin well will do the same for /war, and probably not gimp experience (or not gimp it very much). Overall I have to say what makes /nin a better sub for me is the tp, and assuming you have a good party (I had a static from 59-75), hitting 100 tp and doing SC's quickly to end battles far exceeds trying to see high damage on your SATA ws.
- After seeing what the rng attack gimp has done to my rng attack when I solo and exp, I believe rng sub is useless. Sam sub likewise will not increase your overall tp output by that much and lacks subtle blow/duel wield or the att dmg you'll be getting if you decide to sub war.
- No flames please, I think everyone has seen enough of these types of arguements. I will say, fair or not, that you will probably recieve less invites subbing /war than /nin.
Thf/Nin -
- Superior pulling capability, useful for sprinter type mobs and if you’re a lazy or bad puller. Ninjitsu helps for AOE physical attacks as well; I guess this might be only applicable to fighting weapons at higher levels. As stated before Thfs are excellent mini tankers if the shit hits the fan during exp (assuming you'll be able to grab hate some way)
- Subtle Blow, somewhat surprised no one bothered to bring up how kick ass subtle blow is. Mob gets less tp off your dagger swings, makes life easier on your tank.
- Off hand weapon - Stat buffs rock, you get faster tp with duel wield trait. You will have more total swings on average per fight. I found tp to be not all that great for vb and de, but I do like the extra kick it gives sb. Duel wielding also allows you the luxury of wearing higher delay daggers (like Harpe) and not gimping your tp build to bad.
- Duel wielding daggers is cool and you know it.
War
- att bonus / zerk / warcry - with these mods you will be hitting harder.
- I don't list double swing as a positive because quite frankly duel wield kicks double swings ass.
Rng
- I use to believe this might be a viable option in some circumstances, but after the gimp to Rng attacks after the last patch, I don't see how this combination is useful at all.
Sam
- Store TP and Meditate - I've only used this combination messing around while farming, but I can't really even notice the store tp on my dagger swings, while meditating for 60 tp every 3 minutes seemed kinda crappy.
My Personal Opinion
- Ultimately, I think it boils down to safety and speed vs. raw damage. I do think /war is a viable sub in the sense that a good thief who plays thf/nin well will do the same for /war, and probably not gimp experience (or not gimp it very much). Overall I have to say what makes /nin a better sub for me is the tp, and assuming you have a good party (I had a static from 59-75), hitting 100 tp and doing SC's quickly to end battles far exceeds trying to see high damage on your SATA ws.
- After seeing what the rng attack gimp has done to my rng attack when I solo and exp, I believe rng sub is useless. Sam sub likewise will not increase your overall tp output by that much and lacks subtle blow/duel wield or the att dmg you'll be getting if you decide to sub war.
- No flames please, I think everyone has seen enough of these types of arguements. I will say, fair or not, that you will probably recieve less invites subbing /war than /nin.
#15
Posted 10 August 2005 - 02:01 PM
While this may sound weird, I'd actually recommend THF/DRK for Tu'Lia. When fighting the four gods the stun ability you get from /37DRK will actually work. Mithra/Hume usually only has a base of about 80MP with a /DRK allowing only three stuns (@25MP per stun), but you can merit MP or get a refresh to help out in the longer battles. Your usefulness as a THF just went up a bit when you can be used in the stun order.
Souleater + Hide + SATA + Sharkbite works as an effective hate staple on your main tank and can do much for ensuring that things don't get out of control early on. While not as efficient as Souleater on DRK main, it still allows nasty damage from a quick striking dagger.
Here are a few "hate staple" screenshots, I usually do these at the start right before I mug the enemy.
Byakko Hate Staple
Seiryu Hate Staple
Seiryu Hate Staple #2
Suzaku Hate Staple
Suzaku Hate Staple #2
When fighting Kirin, regular hits usually fall on the low range due to THF's use of dagger. Souleater enhanced hits were doing approximately 50-80 per dagger swing while the effect was in place (according to health). Souleater+SA+SB was averaging around 500-650 (unable to set up TA due to our kiting method).
While hunting God pops in Tu'Lia, many of the enemies are considered arcana. You can actually use Arcane Circle and Stun pretty effectively when hunting many of the god pop enemies.
Brigandish Blade Hate Staple
I'm not saying to use it for everyday partying, but consider it a viable subjob for some of the game's higher end enemies.
Souleater + Hide + SATA + Sharkbite works as an effective hate staple on your main tank and can do much for ensuring that things don't get out of control early on. While not as efficient as Souleater on DRK main, it still allows nasty damage from a quick striking dagger.
Here are a few "hate staple" screenshots, I usually do these at the start right before I mug the enemy.
Byakko Hate Staple
Seiryu Hate Staple
Seiryu Hate Staple #2
Suzaku Hate Staple
Suzaku Hate Staple #2
When fighting Kirin, regular hits usually fall on the low range due to THF's use of dagger. Souleater enhanced hits were doing approximately 50-80 per dagger swing while the effect was in place (according to health). Souleater+SA+SB was averaging around 500-650 (unable to set up TA due to our kiting method).
While hunting God pops in Tu'Lia, many of the enemies are considered arcana. You can actually use Arcane Circle and Stun pretty effectively when hunting many of the god pop enemies.
Brigandish Blade Hate Staple
I'm not saying to use it for everyday partying, but consider it a viable subjob for some of the game's higher end enemies.
#16
Posted 17 August 2005 - 03:14 AM
Hmmm i actually never thought of that before about the souleater method. You mentioned that you get 50-60 per swing on kirin, which makes it pretty handy, since the delay is pretty low on thf, and you can run around with kirin without much problem.... maybe i should try lvling drk up.
One question i have about stunning using /drk though, since stun is a Dark magic skill (with thunder base spell,) wouldn't your stun be resisted most of the time since you will only get the dark magic skill of only lvl37?
One question i have about stunning using /drk though, since stun is a Dark magic skill (with thunder base spell,) wouldn't your stun be resisted most of the time since you will only get the dark magic skill of only lvl37?
#17
Posted 17 August 2005 - 04:42 AM
Well, If i remember right, THF AF Hat has +5 INT. However other than that, I would think that there would be some INT+ and Elemental Skill + items used for this, as well as MP+. But I'm not sure, just a guess though.
I was kinda in shock seeing that post, because I never thought I would of seen that combination with that much of a valid reason to it.
Kudos on that one.
I was kinda in shock seeing that post, because I never thought I would of seen that combination with that much of a valid reason to it.
Kudos on that one.
#18
Posted 17 August 2005 - 07:20 PM
Hmmm i actually never thought of that before about the souleater method. You mentioned that you get 50-60 per swing on kirin, which makes it pretty handy, since the delay is pretty low on thf, and you can run around with kirin without much problem.... maybe i should try lvling drk up.
One question i have about stunning using /drk though, since stun is a Dark magic skill (with thunder base spell,) wouldn't your stun be resisted most of the time since you will only get the dark magic skill of only lvl37?
One question i have about stunning using /drk though, since stun is a Dark magic skill (with thunder base spell,) wouldn't your stun be resisted most of the time since you will only get the dark magic skill of only lvl37?
The dagger swings on Kirin seem to max out at around 80 (which is pretty good for a knife) and travel back down to your regular avg damage as Souleater eats your health away. Average damage (w/o Souleater) are normally in the mid teens to low 20's with a VERY heavy STR build that actually slows my attacks slightly, but it ensures I do get a TP return from my hits.
When fighting the god pops and the regular 4 gods, your stuns will go through just fine, you'll be very effective. If you can be included in the tank party you can even help out the tank with Arcane Circle on almost all of the god pops. When fighting something like Kirin or Behemoth, expect none of your stuns to land due to the enemy nature (Lightning/Earth Based), just keep it in mind.
Be careful with it, you can drain a large portion of your health and rip hate if you're not careful. Make sure that the hate staple is ending up on someone or you'll quickly drop yourself.
I've been attempting to track averages and spikes and have listed what I've currently tracked on the endgame enemies here.
#19
Posted 18 August 2005 - 04:09 PM
Stun won't get resisted unless the mob have that ability 
#20
Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:21 PM
I usually use thf/nin, but... I just realised my eva is tremendously underleveled, so I stopped using utsu and made myself get hit 2-3 times when pulling XD.
I'll probally use thf/war for a bit then go back to /nin
I'll probally use thf/war for a bit then go back to /nin
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