[NeoSuplex]

Sorry... I just fail to see how Blue could Main heal.

1) There is only one Mob with an MP 'Regen' Move: Leech with MP Drainkiss. Mobs don't really need Points to accomplish things (Besides HP), therefore they don't really have Regen moves other than Spells (which Blue Mage can't copy).

2) Blue Mage is most effective in Melee Range. Almost all MOB Techniques are close range, so how would a Blue Mage heal on the frontlines? The alternative would be to stay in the back, and forego the use of any Blue Magic. (Including Debuffs and the aforementioned Drainkiss...)

3) Summoner can act as a Main healer even with only Subbed Cures thanks to Auto Refresh and MP Boost Traits. BLM can act as a healer thanks to a still very Generous MP Pool Extended by Conserve MP. RDM can main heal by using Refresh, High Tier Cures, and Convert. Blue mage, even with a big MP Pool, would still be limited to Cure III and Maybe White Wind. And, he would have no natural MP restoring or conserving Traits.

Not only that, people that rush to play Blue Mage.. are gonna want to play Blue Mage. They're gonna want to stay in Melee range and probably get hit by those AOEs to see what they can learn. Remember, the job is Brand new and someone has to figure out what Blue can learn. They aren't going to want to see how they can get Blue to Cure.

Anyway, even if Mobs do have MP regen Moves that Blue can learn, that means he could learn the Defensive moves just as well.

[Auraeon]

Magic Pots have a Refresh ability, also a null-magic ability, Mandragora's, Cactuar's, and Leech's all have strong Regen abilities, and they all stack too (Ever skill up on a Leech with a 0 DMG weapon? after a few regen moves, they start gaining back HP in huge intervals.) These would give the job a big advantage when tanking.

Crabs have a protect-type ability, a shell-type ability, Stoneskin, and an HP based water damage ability (Bubble Shower.) So BLU will probably want to fight Crabs often, or at least untill they obtain all of their useful abilities.

Also, in FF9 and 10, Blue Mage did not need to be hit by abilities to learn them, they copied them through a special ability, "Eat" or "Cook" in FF9 and "Lancet" in FF10, but in FF8 you used items to learn new Blue Magic, so dont think you have to be hit by abilities to learn them, especially in this new type of Final Fantasy game, being online and played with hundreds of thousands of people, there are bound to be a few changes to make the jobs work and balance out in the game. I'm guessing the 2hr ability will copy a random ability from the monster you're fighting, it would have to be 2hr ability because could you imagine just having a level 75 player run around with you for an hour to tank every mob and you copy all of their abilities at like level 1? That would be dumb, you should have a huge wait time between copies, so it will make the job last, I mean even SMN gets all the Avatars at level 1, but you still cant use the abilities untill you gain specific levels... maybe the Learning 2hr will be level based too, so you cant copy abilities from Even Match+ monsters, since nothing over 75 has anything you would need anyways... HNM abilities can usually be learned from weaker monsters, other than Adamantoise's, but are they even over level 75? Adamantoise seems pretty weak, considering a RDM could solo it (before HNM patch that made them get stronger over time while claimed.)

Umm, what else was I going to say? Oh, BLU could be a very versitile job, but personally, I think subbing SMN would make a nice boost to its overall performance, if its MP based, and all of its abilities lie in MP, Auto-refresh combined with its own Blue Magic MP absorb from worms, and refresh ability (magic pot ability... I think something else has a refresh ability, its on the tip of my tongue, but I cant think of what it is...) would make its quite a strong mage job, a true rival of Red Mage.

The only thing I see that might hinder the job, is that 99% of its abilities are self-only, or AoE damage, so I see it being more of a solo job, but you never know...
Dhalmel's Healing Breeze (Curaga II) ability might put Blue Mage into a healing position, especially if it costs low MP to cast it. Dhalmel's are easily accessable in Tahrongi Canyon at low levels too.

Okay I think I typed enough, I'll check back soon~

[smackdown]

You know, it's amazing how much NeoSuplex knows about a job that doesn't even exist yet. I'm in shock and awe at the sheer amount of knowledge that NeoSuplex has amassed about the abilities of the new job "Blue Mage" and he even knows the stats of said job! All those hours of Special Ed must've paid off for you huh NeoSuplex? I sure am glad the government is spending my well earned tax dollars educating wonderful gimps such as yourself NeoSuplex.

[spira]

I think BLU will be the new RDM/NIN in terms of soloing power.. lol

[Xrave]

Auraeon :
I'm guessing the 2hr ability will copy a random ability from the monster you're fighting, it would have to be 2hr ability because could you imagine just having a level 75 player run around with you for an hour to tank every mob and you copy all of their abilities at like level 1? That would be dumb, you should have a huge wait time between copies, so it will make the job last, I mean even SMN gets all the Avatars at level 1, but you still cant use the abilities untill you gain specific levels... maybe the Learning 2hr will be level based too, so you cant copy abilities from Even Match+ monsters, since nothing over 75 has anything you would need anyways... HNM abilities can usually be learned from weaker monsters, other than Adamantoise's, but are they even over level 75? Adamantoise seems pretty weak, considering a RDM could solo it (before HNM patch that made them get stronger over time while claimed.)

Although I would like to see abilities learned this way, as you said, there're thousands of people who play this game.

More than likely monter abilities are going to be quested scrolls in the new city with specific levels needed in order to learn an ability...much like how ninjutsu scrolls are obtained in Norg.

[Spanner]

smackdown :
You know, it's amazing how much NeoSuplex knows about a job that doesn't even exist yet. I'm in shock and awe at the sheer amount of knowledge that NeoSuplex has amassed about the abilities of the new job "Blue Mage" and he even knows the stats of said job! All those hours of Special Ed must've paid off for you huh NeoSuplex? I sure am glad the government is spending my well earned tax dollars educating wonderful gimps such as yourself NeoSuplex.

I was startled by this as well! He seems to know the amount of MP Blue Mage has, its fighting ability, and what TP abilities it will be able to learn - all from roughly 30 seconds worth of grainy footage from a video shown in Japan!

I'm also amazed by his concise definition of what it takes to be a main healer - and even moreso, because it pretty much rules out WHM as a main healer. After all, WHM, like Blue Mage (apparently), doesn't have Refresh, Auto-Refresh, OR Conserve MP! I guess I'd better go BLM full-time, since I can't heal as a WHM. I'll have to be sure to put "BLM - Main Heal onry" in my search comment so that people don't accidentally invite me as, oh, I dunno, a damage dealer, or something.

Sixty-four levels, now, I've been main healing, and I didn't even know I was unsuited for the job. Man, this is gonna shock my static!

All sarcasm aside, realize that you don't know jack about Blue Mage until it comes out. All speculation about its abilities, and how it will best use them, is just that - speculation - at this point. Prior versions of Blue Mage in Final Fantasy games can do no more than hint at what Blue Mage will be like. Heck, even the jobs that we have bear only a slight resemblance to their past FF incarnations - previously, PLD has been among the strongest damage dealing classes, for instance, but in FFXI, its sacrificed almost all of its offensive power for defense. SMN is barely even recognizable.

It's fun to imagine how Blue Mage will turn out, but it's beyond laughable to believe that you're any kind of authority on the subject!

[NeoSuplex]

This entire Section is speculation, so I guess you have alot of flaming to do, eh? As for the stats, no, I don't know for sure what the exact MP for a Blue Mage would be, but I'd bet money that it doesn't come close to BLM or SMN. Having loads of MP is what they do.. It's no diffrent than assuming a SMN won't have Monk HP....

And, that's really cute, WHM being ruled out of Main healing.. Except that they get all the most efficient Healing spells. Not to mention they can Sub for those abilities without loosing said healing Spells.


But, tell you what: If Blue Mage comes out and has SMN MP, Auto Refresh, or Conserve MP (Which is nessisary if you want to heal with just spells from /WHM) I'll gladly concede defeat. Until then, you guess is no better than mine.

[Uragirimono]

I hope they learn abilities as slow as a SMN gains points on the Summon Skill.

...well, maybe not THAT slow, but slow enough that you can't just run through a zone with a train and learn abilities, but rather you'd have to either tank or be lucky((unlucky)) to eat that Sickle Slash to learn it.

[niyariko]

Uragirimono :
I hope they learn abilities as slow as a SMN gains points on the Summon Skill...

haha and I hope their "Learn Ability skill" actually have something to do with....... Learn ability!?..... or something, not like the summoning skill

[Vaglecian]

......../sub whm....

[Tvirus]

I think blu will be a consistent solo job like bst, but also being able to tank PLD style, thanks to the def abilities of the mobs and self-healing abilities like pollen. I dont think blu will learn abilities being hit by them at this ff... maybe SE will add some rare/ex scrolls (common drops of certain enemies, containing their abilities). In this case, the scrolls would require a minimum lvl to learn them, obviously. blu may also get the abilities of the mobs just like ja's, gaining lvls, but they would appear in grey till you use some kind of absorbing command against the mobs owning the abilities.

[Spanner]

NeoSuplex :
This entire Section is speculation, so I guess you have alot of flaming to do, eh? As for the stats, no, I don't know for sure what the exact MP for a Blue Mage would be, but I'd bet money that it doesn't come close to BLM or SMN. Having loads of MP is what they do.. It's no diffrent than assuming a SMN won't have Monk HP....

And, that's really cute, WHM being ruled out of Main healing.. Except that they get all the most efficient Healing spells. Not to mention they can Sub for those abilities without loosing said healing Spells.


But, tell you what: If Blue Mage comes out and has SMN MP, Auto Refresh, or Conserve MP (Which is nessisary if you want to heal with just spells from /WHM) I'll gladly concede defeat. Until then, you guess is no better than mine.

Sorry - I was, perhaps, a bit overly caustic. The way you were casually dismissing peoples' ideas rubbed me the wrong way - especially with the scores of other Blue Mage threads going on right now with people making ludicrously serious statements about "how BLU is going to be".

My point was that, just like SMN, a BLU could well become a great Healing class by subbing WHM. It doesn't have SMN's enormous MP reserves, but who's to say what kind of beneficial Healing TP abilities it might be able to pick up from monsters? SMN is handicapped by the fact that it never learns any healing spell stronger than Cure III (and doesn't learn that until level 42!). BLU may overcome that limitation with more powerful (and cost-efficient?) healing monster abilities.

We also can't assume that the current roster of monster abilities is all that Blue Mage will be able to choose from. Undoubtedly, new monsters will be added with the next expansion, and I'd be very surprised if some of them didn't have TP abilities tailor-made for Blue Mage to acquire, since Blue Mage will be introduced in the same expansion. No monster that I know of currently has a Refresh TP ability - and, in fact, such an ability would be all but useless to your typical magic-using monster. This doesn't mean that there can't be a monster in the new expansion who DOES have a Refresh TP ability.

So, now that we've covered that Blue Mage CAN be a healer or a refresher, depending on what SE decides to do, what about other categories? The game sure could use another Tanking class, and I think that the idea of a mage able to tank competently is a good one. Personally, I think that the rumors I've heard of a Geomancer job class sounds better suited to the task, but let's stick with Blue Mage for now.

What does a tank need? Well, a WAR sub, for one (unless you're a WAR to begin with, of course). There's really no way to make up for the hate-inducing power of Provoke. A tank also needs ways to mitigate damage, and to further strengthen hate - either through massive damage, or high-hate abilities.

Mitigating damage is the first thing we should consider. Mages aren't very tough - even RDMs, who are built partially for taking monsters on one-on-one. SE COULD make BLU's deliberately tough, with high VIT and HP, but that begins to infringe on the territory of PLD. More likely, they'll have job traits and abilities that help to toughen them up. If SE is serious on making these guys potential tanks, though, they'll undoubtedly be the most durable Mages in the game, just so they aren't one-shotted (or even two- or three-shotted) when the other abilities fail. A cool ability might be one that transforms a percentage of damage taken into MP - that would be very useful for a tanking mage to have (possibly a little too powerful, though, unless the percentage transformed is very small).

At the moment, though, there aren't many monster abilities that are great for tanking. People have suggested that BLU might learn Utsusemi from NIN Beastmen, but I find that unlikely. Traditionally, Blue Mages have learned monster-specific abilities, but never spells. Doesn't mean it's impossible; I just don't think SE will go that route. If they can learn "Occultation" from Seethers in Promivion, though, they might still make competent Blink Tanks - Seethers get something like twenty shadows from that ability, so even poor Evasion wouldn't be an obstacle.

As for keeping hate, you'd have to ask a BST to figure out what abilities produce a ton of hate. I'm guessing, though, that a Blue Mage will have to rely on heavy damage abilities, rather than high-hate abilities. Easy, you say, right? Moves like "Sickle Slash" and "Death Scissors" can easily take out a PLD if you're not careful - they should be awesome for holding hate! Not to mention beating a monster down fast. Well, what people seem to forget is that the PLDs being killed are being killed by Spiders and Scorpions 8-15 levels higher than they are. "Sickle Slash" isn't nearly as scary from a monster 8-15 levels WEAKER - which is what the Blue Mage will be, compared to the monsters he's tanking.

It could well be that these abilities will still be strong enough to hold the monster's attention, though. For holding hate, I'm guessing that Blue Mages will be working from the standpoint of dealing damage (like NINs and WARs) rather than technique (like PLDs).

So, Blue Mage can be a tank, depending on how SE builds it, and what abilities it is given. If they aren't careful to give it strong enough abilities that it can RIVAL PLD or NIN, though, BLU's are going to find themselves main healing, just like SMN.

What about Damage Dealer? We've got SO many damage dealing classes, that this seems like a remarkably poor idea. We only have one damage dealing MAGE class, though - it might not be a bad idea to make Blue Mage into something that can fill Black Mage's shoes, whether it be in exp party or in some other event. There are some things that you simply must have a Black Mage for - it'd be nice if that were no longer true.

To rival Black Mage, Blue Mage would need to be given some of the very strongest monster abilities. There are limits, of course - "Mortal Ray" would be patently absurd, even if it missed frequently. Same with "Throat Stab", or anything else that deals percentage-based damage. Things like the much-feared "Spike Flail" wouldn't be out of the question, though. Again, since Blue Mage isn't usually twenty levels higher than the opponent, it wouldn't be as ruinous an ability as when a Wyrm uses it on an alliance, but it could still be expected to deal damage rivaling some of a BLM's strongest spells.

With great power comes great frailty, though. If Blue Mages are going to be as strong as Black Mages, they'll have to be as weak, as well. Forget tanking, if Blue Mage is designed to be a damage-dealing job... At least, if it's designed to be a GOOD damage-dealing job. And if it's a mediocre damage-dealing job - well, back to main healing like SMN, again, I guess, or sitting with the DRGs (another job cursed with being good DD, but not EXCELLENT DD) in Jeuno, looking for group.

So, Blue Mage could be a damage-dealing job, if SE deems it so.

It's easy to see how they could be a debuffing job, as well. I'd say well-over half of all monster damage abilities also confer a status ailment of some kind. It might be tough to make Blue Mage into a support job, though, since monster buffs tend to be self-only. (Though, perhaps that's only because they decide not to cast on someone else? It'd be nice if you could learn Tonberries' ridiculous evasion buff "Sigh", and drop it on the tank... A little too nice, probably.)

So, Blue Mage could be debuffer or support - though it'd take an awful lot of work to make them decent support.

Blue Mage as a ton of potential. I'm going to keep an open mind, and see if SE uses this opportunity to fill some holes that very much need filling...

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

I still doubt whether BUM will be a player job. If it is, it will be interesting to see how one learns abilities. Someone mentioned quested scrolls, which is the easiest way to deal with it. And also the least fun. However, mage spells require levels to access, and summoner abilities do, too. No matter how BUM abilities are acquired, I would bet dollars to donuts that they have levels required to use them. Which, in the case of classic Learning, begs the question, "at what level can I learn this ability?"

I have to say, though, that if it's scrolls, I couldn't stand to play BUM. The entire draw for me is taking a mage to get smacked around, and benefiting from it.

[NeoSuplex]

Same here, I really hope they don't take the Scroll route. My best guess would be that a certain 'Blue Magic' or whatever skill is needed to succesfully Use/Learn a skill to keep people from Subbing the job and having all the skills. As far as Tanking goes, I remember Blues actually being pretty tough in most Job Based FFs (Rather than the Character based ones, which i don't think are a good example for an FFXI Blue).

The thing is... if Blue does infact learn from being hit, he can't learn the spells that would facilitate his survival... but if he doesn't learn through being hit, he has no need to tank. And if he's not a tank, he'll be either just another DD or Some sort of Debuffer, either way becoming lost in the shuffle. I suppose he could become a refresher... but I sincerly hope not. It's nothing against refreshers, I just hope Blue isn't relagated to Refreshing with all the potential fun a job like this could have.

[Refriedchicken]

I don't have much of a comment but if it is good at tanking, maybe i'll try it. xD;

[Spanner]

NeoSuplex :
Same here, I really hope they don't take the Scroll route. My best guess would be that a certain 'Blue Magic' or whatever skill is needed to succesfully Use/Learn a skill to keep people from Subbing the job and having all the skills. As far as Tanking goes, I remember Blues actually being pretty tough in most Job Based FFs (Rather than the Character based ones, which i don't think are a good example for an FFXI Blue).

The thing is... if Blue does infact learn from being hit, he can't learn the spells that would facilitate his survival... but if he doesn't learn through being hit, he has no need to tank. And if he's not a tank, he'll be either just another DD or Some sort of Debuffer, either way becoming lost in the shuffle. I suppose he could become a refresher... but I sincerly hope not. It's nothing against refreshers, I just hope Blue isn't relagated to Refreshing with all the potential fun a job like this could have.

I think that needing to be hit by an effect to learn it would add to the fun and challenge of Blue Mage. Especially if some of the abilities learned only come from very tough enemies. It would promote the whole teamwork aspect that Final Fantasy seems to focus on, as well - you're not going to be able to learn certain abilities on your own. You'll need support there to take care of you while the monster is beating on you.

Honestly, though, I doubt that SE is going to go that route. Assuming that SE will give Blue Mage both defensive and offensive abilities, I don't think there's any way to force an enemy to cast a defensive spell on you. Previous Final Fantasies that had the "it has to be cast on you" rule provided methods for you to control or confuse the enemies into doing so. In this game, though, the only way to get a monster onto your side is to Charm it, and even then the monster only casts on itself...

I really hope they don't do scrolls. That would be lame. >_<

I'm not totally opposed to the idea of having Notorious Monsters that you need to fight to learn the abilities, though. It's a very martial-artsy concept, the idea that you need to "beat the master" before you can master a technique.

"So, you wish to learn Cocoon, young one? First, you must face... SQUISHY BILL (level 5) - KING of all Crawlers! Journey into the dank depths of the Horohoto Ruins, and offer up a Gausebit Grass to the altar there. Only then will Squishy Bill grace you with his presence. If you can defeat this mighty foe, then you will become a True Master of the Cocoon!"

[AzureSun]

First, you must face... SQUISHY BILL (level 5) - KING of all Crawlers!

ROFL!!!