[Mokaleaf]

OK here' the story, im a ninja, and recently this PLD, a good one joined my team... and for 2 days in a row he wouldnt even let me hold a second of an agro, i know its his job to be a tank ... but then what am i? as long the mages are fine i tried to provoke the mob but he pulled it back in using flash sentinel and the gang or even another provoke, is this really necessary?

At first i dont mind but cmon this is a teamwork game right? When i go to battle i wanna trust and be trusted by my fellow companions.

I just wanna post this because i think this is a serious issue among many PLDs out there, and i called this a "Knight in Shining Armor" syndrome...

Please for every PT leader out there, be mindful of your fellow teammates, use them to their full potentials for maximum fun, the job PLD gives alota potential for one to be a glory hogger, and its up to you to be which kind of knight really

[ske]

with 2 tanks in party you'll get that..

[paladiny]

Pld + nin don't mix very well ^^
PLD have better hate control than most NIN's since they use some white magic.

There is no way to steal agro from PLD unless ur a damage dealer like thieves,ranger or if u sub THF u might be able too

PLD and NIN are both tanks.. so if u want to share hate.. its risky since you never know if the monster wanders off to a mage by mistake ^^;

usually its either PLD or NIN as tank but if u want to share hate u can always tell the pld to limit the flash and cure he/she uses that way you can bounce monster around

[ske]

From a WHM perspective it's a lot better if you have 1 tank, and i very much want that to be a paladin, not a ninja (for hate control).

[Rensei Ryo]

The best way to draw aggro away from a Paladin is to be a royal pest to the mob. Think of some annoying skills that you can pump out quickly and mix with Provoke. Stir well with your dual blades and youve got one pissed monster. Ultimately, the best way to deal with it is to ask the White Mage if he has an opinion.

[Karg]

As a paladin I'll try to explain. Its not that I wouldnt want a ninja to help tank but if you play a paladin properly you DON'T want 2 tanks. With Shield Bash,Provoke,Cure I-IV, and everything the paladin has its made for one person to tank. If there is no paladin then a ninja is certainly better for tanking. But don't take it as the paladin is being mean or an ass, there just doing there job well. A lot of people call it the ping-pong effect to bounce the mob from one tank to another but it has been much more effective for me to tank by myself. If you start noticing a trend in only finding parties with a paladin then maybe you can make better use as a NIN/THF. Just my 2 gil.

[Wirikidor]

Again, from the whm perspective, it is much safer for the party as a whole to have one person taking all the aggro. This way there is only one person to heal and the 2nd tank will always have the provoke ready if the mages draw aggro.

[Savant]

and i called this a "Knight in Shining Armor" syndrome...

Rofl stfu

Sounds like that PLD was doing his job, its what we do...unless theirs reason otherwise that is the norm.

[Mokaleaf]

im not sure how it is in other servers but well in my server things arent that perfect, from my experience getting a PT together is a world of pain on its own.
So most of the time youll get into not a "Solid" PT, i've been in a PT with 2 PLDs and those PLDs and a bard are actually the healers, but hey it works we bounce the dmg all over sharing equal number.

What I'm saying is when its not a perfect PT, when u got multiple tanks etc., cmon there are ways to coexist peacefully, and so everyone can play their jobs at full potential and not feeling useless after a horrible horrible day from school. (worst case scenario)

"This way there is only one person to heal and the 2nd tank will always have the provoke ready if the mages draw aggro." -Wirikidor

exactly.. this is where i supposed to go as a nin and actually have fun right?... but he stole the agro from me, this is not team playing. It's depressing.

oh btw the PLD he' a nice guy.. i never think of him as an ass, but OII I WANNA PLAY MY NINJA:wall

[Valion]

The only problem here is that you feel like you can't play your job. But if a group is to be the most efficient it can be with whatever jobs are within the party, then the paladin is doing his/her part.

A group though should never have to have more then one tank; but since it seems there was no one else to choose from and your group was stuck with two tanks then let the paladin tank. Not only will it keep downtime shorter but you save yourself money.

[Shakara]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a ninja versatile enough so that he/she can become more effective in other areas when tanking isn't necessary?

I mean, if the Paladin has a lock on aggro at all times, that's a GOOD thing. Good for the healers, good for the nukers, good for the melee damagers. So why can't the ninja start using the other powders/skill to increase damage, enfeeblement, etc. etc.

Granted, I'm not as familiar with the ninja class as I am with most others, so I might be totally off with this assumption.

[Feii]

Yeah ninjas mix realy good with a blm since they can weaken it to different elements . Ive never met a great NIN tank but i havent played with many nins. Personally id take a Paladin but never more then 1 if i can help it. Because 2 paladins realy cut down on the damage and i find that a SAM/War can pop 3rd eye andprovoke and do a fine job tanking for the 5-10 seconds before the paladin gets his voke back

[Mokaleaf]

Well lately me, a whm and a sam formed this little pact to lvl together, and this PLD join in and theres big chance he'll stay along.

I did give a hint that i want to tank for abit, also when i used utsusemi right after... ending a renkei -and- a provoke. That means i want that hate badd, he's been a tank for long he should understand this, but he did a shield bash; stunning and elliminating all agro i've built, that means he' feeling competitive... well im up for the challenge. :sly

So guys its a common discussion about how a PLD should hold agro, but can you guys help me steal an agro off an uber Pala?

give me all your weaknesses...
on the second day i tried subbing thf for sneak attack bonus during renkei, doesnt built enough agro ... and i dont have provoke.

[salty]

If you have a THF, you want two tanks like that. It works perfectly. Just have the PLD take some hate at the beginning, then have the THF TA on you. Bam you have your hate now ^^. Cast Utsusemi Ni after your blink is gone and you just held hate for about 20 seconds without even taking damage. When the PLD gets hate back you can rinse and repeat. This is how I work with PLD + NIN combos and it works very well for downtime.

Mix in a SC SA TA in there and let the PLD have fun trying to get 600+ dmg worth of hate off you .

If worse comes to worse use your better Ninjitsu to slow, paralyze, and poison, these things gather nice amounts of hate and will help make that PLD feel... well... less like a Knight

[Zaris]

Ninjas could always pull the monster at the beginning. I mean whoever hits a mob first will get massive hate. Especially if the puller uses provoke. That aggression + the fact that you hit him first makes pulling off the puller a difficult task, and a paladin simply using provoke at that time merely reduces enmity and will just end up bouncing around. So I learned that whoever pulls has to take a few shots.

I've seen ninjas who were great tanks in the Yughott Jungle, great pullers in the Crawler's Nest. You could do this method.

[OzZnfruitloops]

Why would you wanna steal the hate from your Tank? That would do nothing but just piss me off, and probally piss off your party? Your Paladin is doing his job, and I dont mean to make your job seem less important, but you shouldnt try and steal hate when its not needed

However, of course, there are times itse needed, and it sucks when yuo cant steal it back. Oddly enough, i havent partied with many paladins, so I havent seen alot of them in action. But I know how annoying it is when i cant steal Hate back from a Warrior.

For an example, Me and another Warrior were taking out orc fighters, and cursemakers. He had a greatsword, I had a 1hd sword. Even with every ability i had that could draw hate...that damn greatsword was dealing too much attention...

Actually...at level 25 War/Mnk...what can a warrior do to have a seal on the hate. I run into problems with White mages, and BLM spammers...Im Provoking every 30, Boosting 2ce every 30...and using defender (although I dont think that draws hate)?

[caelestis]

Defender doesn't draw hate like Sentinel. It's just a defense boost like Berserk is an attack boost.

While NIN is a good tank in the long run, at later levels I'll give anything for a good PLD simply because I know hate will be managed easier. Yes Utsuemi, if casted nonstop, can be effective for tanking, but in the long run with the target is being assaulted by Anchient Magic, Penta Thrust, Guillotine, etc etc, a NIN won't be able to keep hate onto them as solid as a PLD would. PLD was designed solely to tank and keep the target onto them to defend the team. NIN is versatile enough to do both DMG as well as tank if the need arises. And as previously mentioned in a thread, yes it's good to have a backup tank at times, and whilst NIN is good, (not tooting my own horn, I need remind you I hate my job for the most) DRG is probably better to trick off of for the simple fact you can use Penta --> Dancing Edge fo Gravitation (or even Skewer or Vorpal for different renkei), Super Jump if the target turns around, and hate will still remain on the tank with the massive fuidama DMG still done^^

[Sharktooth]

If you really want hate and really want to tank then just be a Paladin that's all I have to say

[Discordian]

Thats right. Paladin in the most loved and hated across Vandiel. Easy to play wrong but so good when played right.

[Sharktooth]

Or if you want to tank as a ninja then dont party with a good PLD... party with a bad one or without one...

OMG I got to go to class...