[Taga]

Kayoto :
Looks like Taga has a point...that WAR was doing approximately the same damage as that DRK. But Taga, can you get shots of their equipment? It's possible that the WAR has alot more ATK+ items than the DRK. Not saying that I doubt you, just saying that alot of factors could go into that damage. Maybe the DRK wasn't using Souleater and Berserk (If he's DRK/WAR)? And if he was DRK/THF, at LV60 he wouldn't have that ATK Bonus as a WAR, so that'd explain something too...like I said, I'm not doubting you (really, I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to be logical), and I'm just wondering what other factors are going into that situation...because if this applied to every DRK and WAR at that level, DRKs would have no reason to exist. ^^;

They both had their best weapon (vassago's scythe and great darksteel axe) and they were both in full AF. Neither of them had buffs one because they were both subbing thf. If the war subs his DRK like he usually does he gets the exact same buffs + the increased accuracy. (he's 60 WAR / 30 DRK)

And yes Powerz that was in mona... didn't drop a single key in 3 hours

[paladiny]

--> Warriors are not necessary to level DRK, DRG, SAM is pretty much the same pick either one

RDM and BRD is necessary to level or else u will have downtime >_:)

DRK like snipper rings and warriors doesn't really like them which makes WAR,DRK,DRG balanced.

..*runs off staring at the cursed armor set*.. mm why can't plds wear that

[ultima]

Lol Talisen what u are comparing is a Drk going all out. My friend (name kept unknown) is a lvl 75 war and he is unbelievably powerful. He went all out in one fight (boss battle kept unknown). He had the strongest weapon known right now the Beserker axe. ( yes it is stronger than any sythe) plus he had all the warrior Af. The Drk did goulitine and did like wht 1000+ dmg. Lol he did the ( inserst GA ws here) and did well above 2000 dmg. ( both were given buffs lots of em too). But alas it depends on how u can use ur job. I am going all the way with war. I will admit that ranger is the strongest. Also at soem points i have been able to peel off an aggro from a paly. ( couldnt when he used invincible to save whm who used bene aggroed by 4 gobs our pt lol). IT all just depends on how u can utilize ur job. :wall

[Lysandra]

Yes Taga, that 30 seconds of your fight is nice... but wouldn't you have to parse out the DPS over say like... a few hours to really get an accurate picture? Besides that, there's always the factor of how well a person knows their class. Showing me what one DRK and one WAR does in 30 seconds is completely useless.

Not that it really matters anyway, I'm sure both classes do nice damage and that both could fit in well into a group. Personally though, if I were going for DPS warrior wouldn't be what I would immediately think about. Talisen was simply pointing out that you can't just make a judgement about an entire class from four hours of grouping. He has chosen dark knight, and that's what works for him in our group setup.

[Talisen]

Lol that Screenshot proves zilch, sorry for all the work you did.

Hey, what was the TP used? Both at 300%?

What was the full gear used? Necklaces and rings?

Also, ever notice when you pull a /ws the damage differs? Take that in account?

Here I thought you really wanted to end the debate on who does more damage, like you asked in your post, and then you bring it up again.

Happen to read every other post? Even the people that disagree with some of my points concede the DRKs do more damage. That is what the whole class is about.

I would love to see more warriors, but thats why people usually dont play them high level. They either wanna tank (pal) or deal more damage (drk).

[Nohmaan]

Yeh alot of people dismiss the starter jobs because they arent "Advanced Jobs".

MNK and WAR are pretty rare

[aques]

I have to agree with Taga.

This was my pt: pld, mnk, war, whm, blm, brd

we're all lvl 58, hunting in boyahda tree, killing crabs, mandragora types.

it was mnk/war, and war/thf, war/thf using penta and mnk/war using raging fists.

the difference? the mnk raging fists average 100-400, the war pentathrust average 200-700. I am not kidding. I was the paladin, and I literally could not take off aggro from him. Imagine flash, 2 cure3, provoke, shield bash, sentinel...and I STILL can't take it off the war/thf! Note that the average damage was the min and max damage I saw in a 3 hour xping period. I'm assuming they used it when TP=100% as they both used 2-3 WS a fight. On one fight, the war/thf did pentathrust for around 400ish dmg each 3 times, about one every 30 seconds. Only once I saw mnk/war did over 400 damage, but the war/thf did around 400 damage on average.

I don't have evidence from the game but the war/thf does penta as often as mnk/war, yet doing 200-700 dmg compared with mnk/war 100-400 dmg. Later the war/thf switched to a 1handed axe, and his ws did the same dmg as mnk/war raging fists.

the war/thf, I gave up taking aggro off him. I never felt so obsolete till that day. You would be too if you used everything you had and still could not take aggro off a pentathrusting war/thf with sneak attack.

Honestly speaking, I was afraid that with a war/thf in party we won't have good damage over time at first. Now I was in awe. In my opinion: RNG > WAR > MNK > DRK > DRG > SAM

[Howler]

Listen to Taga, she knows what she is talking about. I'm a lvl 61 WAR/SAM and I can tell you that we do as much or even more damage than DRK at my level.

The last time I partied with a lvl60 hume DRK/30THF, I was hitting more often and doing more damage as result. I was a lvl 59WAR/26THF at the time and didn't even have Raging Rush. Most of the time I had to unleash my TP first (Sneak Attack+Sturmwind or Shield Break), because the DRK was missing way too much and not getting enough TP to do a proper renkei. I will admit that with the attack bonus + last resort + soul eater all active, the DRK will do more damage per hit. The problem is actually getting the DRK to hit the mob.

I have a lot of DEX enhancing rings and armor (including a life belt). I hit more often than I miss and build TP relatively fast. I still haven't had a chance to play with my SAM sub because the RDM in our static PT decided to (selfishly) do her own thing. But I expect I will give the excellent paladin in our party a hard time holding hate. He has lost hate to my Raging Rush in the past, but it's a good thing I can take a hit better than a DRK can.

-H

[Lysandra]

I really, really can't stand it when people reply without reading the posts beforehand.

YOU CANNONT MAKE AN ACCURATE JUDGEMENT ON AN INTIRE CLASS FROM GROUPING WITH ONE OF THEM FOR A FEW HOURS.

If you want to parse out the DPS over several different players, that might actually tell somebody something. But to just sit here and say "I grouped with player X for a few hours yesterday, and I did more damage than him" is silly.

[Taga]

You are fighting a losing war.

[Taga]

Talisen :
Lol that Screenshot proves zilch, sorry for all the work you did.

Hey, what was the TP used? Both at 300%?

What was the full gear used? Necklaces and rings?

Here I thought you really wanted to end the debate on who does more damage, like you asked in your post, and then you bring it up again.

I was asked to post a screenshot so I did.

Sorry to burst your bubble here but the DRK had better equipment. The WAR is actually kinda poor and only wears his AF, Royal Guard collar and STR+2 rings to buff his attack. He has an assault pierce now because he is borrowing it until the person who bought it hits level 58 but not when I took the screenshot.

I talked to them and they both used their TP when it is 100-110%.

[Johno]

guys i need advice i have my Sam at lvl 26 and my monk at 31 i enjoy both classes but dont know which to lvl up >.

[Lysandra]

Taga :
You are fighting a losing war.

So are you hun. But that's all message board fights ever are.

[cyrinius]

hey hey hey no dissing of the warriors.. I do plenty more damage than paladin, I hold just as much good hate if I'm using ninja sub, and I hardly ever die anymore.....and having two axes for fighting makes me do even more damage... need to upgrade one of the axes tho ^^anyways hey all

[cyrinius]

I'm kinda getting tired of being a warrior now tho.. I can only go up one more lvl sigh... that fuckin maat fight sucked... had to do it twice before I figured out what I needed to do
anyways.. I think I'm going to start lvling my monk.. I love the monk Af and they can do asuran fists at lvl 71 .. VERY NICE ^^

[cyrinius]

oh did you guys hear that the new update you can get your old AF's over again.. if you happen to do a new job and you drop old jobs Af's cause you dn't need themm.. you can redo the quest over.. tha's cool ^^

[Chanchai]

Talisen :
/bonk me, ya you correct, Rangers most, then BLM and DRK

I would dare to say i do at least the same damage as drk.

btw warriors arent behind very much.. maybe a little less damage but the good def makes up for it imo, another way to put it is Warrior is the only damage dealer with tanking abilities and breaks + warcry make them very PT friendly

[paladiny]

stop. lol
they're all equal DRK,DRG,WAR, SAM
the only time u won't pick a DRG is when ur fighting undead..

oh question to cyrinus have u got ur hecatomb set yet ? >_<

[Grale]

Y'know, I'll be the first to admit that having only taken War to 30 and now lvling Pld I don't know much about the high-level nature of playing as a War, but a Galkan War/Mnk (which is pretty common) wielding a greataxe is a wonderful thing, and makes an EXCELLENT main tank.
And no, it ain't flashy, but BOY does it work!

Let's forget the Drk for a moment. It's pretty obvious that anything that has Drk as main or subbed will do a TON of damage, and likely suffer defensively to one degree or another... I think we can all agree on that. Just having straight ol' War/Mnk makes a BEAST outta Galkans (and presumably other melee races), with that Gaxe; Double Strike and Counter stack extra attacks on extra attacks, and go a long way towards negating the slow attack rate. Every single one of those extra attacks does Greataxe damage, and the Double Strike adds almost a quarter of your TP bar at a time when it goes off. Counter also acts as an extra evasive maneuver, and I found it made up nicely for the lack of a shield.

This all discounting the Greataxe Wskills, which are AWFULLY nice; Shield Break and Sturmwind alone justify high level warriors, and that's before the OTHER Break skills you get with the weapon. Sturmwind gives you a great head start on TP-regen, and the Breaks let you gimp a mob's defenses to make them wholly more manageable to the meat-wall.

Yeah, Plds are better pure tanks, and Drks deal better damage, and Sams get a lotta TP quickly... but War sits second-best in all three, and that is pretty sweet. The only thing you absolutely must have is Whm backup... and sometimes, you don't even need much.

Man, I miss my Gaxe...

[Enoki]

Drk vs war dmg varies depending on the mob from my observations.

1. If your exping off of mobs that are high defense and not really high evasion mobs and they are IT++ (7+ levels above your character lvl, stuff that would get you 200+exp in chains) the drk will do more dmg than a war.

In beta I was really discouraged playing war around level 45 when we hit quicksand to exp off of beetles. Drk was doing 70~100 per hit on mob and I was doing 20~50. We were both all out. At that point those beetles were like IT++ to us.

2. If your exping off of mobs that are high evasion and they are IT++. I seriously can't come up with a conclusion for this yet lol.

3. If you are killing mobs that aren't IT or borderline IT then the war will start gaining on the drk damage wise to the point where both war and drk damage is similar as you can see in Taga's picture post. The people in that picture are level 60~61 according to Taga. And they are fighting an Orcish Farkiller (level 62-66). A level 66 mob to 60~61 is borderline IT and isn't going to get 200+exp per chain at all so this is a relatively easy mob compared to my first case. I'm sure the Farkiller is probably closer to 62 than 66 since the war is hitting for equal dmg compared to drk.

There is a reason why war start gaining in dmg per swing on drk as mobs get easier. Drk have so much attack on them, that they dish out massive dmg on those IT++ mobs. But as the mobs get easier, the attack difference pretty much becomes an overkill and the benefits aren't as great as before.

I experienced an extreme case of this when I was working on my coffer keys in Zvahl. Vestige, level 62 drk then, was helping me with this. I was a level 58 war back then. On those easy demons that checked easy-even, we were doing very similar dmg per swing. But when it came to the coffer dropping ones that check IT. His damage just plain blew me away. It's mainly do to the fact that there's a point where more attack isn't going to help you more.