[Calaelen]

I am wondering, why there are so many BLM who tell me: "Sorry, no frost - no shock".
Or even worse: "Why? They don't make damage".
And I am talking about BLM 44-46 !!

In 3 of my last 4 Parties I was casting Frost beside my usual work as WHM to help Malees with these damn Beetles in Crawlers Nest.

[YnNeB]

Teyrnon :

Taga :
Spells

Frost - Lowers AGI (melee hit more)

Burn - Lowers INT (more damage against the monster)

Rasp - Lowers DEX (lowers monsters accuracy and chance of critical)

Choke - Lowers VIT (melee do more damage)

Drown - Lowers STR (monster hits for less damage and damage is more variable)

Shock - Lowers MND (all magic against the monster is resisted less)

INT is still wrong here, i believe.. INT does only affect Your spelldmg, and Your chance of getin resisted.
so if you are casting Burn then the mob will do less dmg on his spells, and u will resist him more, but you will still do the same dmg with Your spells against him.

SHOCK though, will lower MND, and therefore allso lowers chance of getting resisted. Burn is imo no good at all, try to silence the mob instead.

cheers

against beetle in crawler'nest, without burn, 105 dmg with blizzard, with burn, 126.

[Bodziu]

INT or MND works very well with spellcasters who can cast spell and mob wont be resisted (more chance)
Good thing from begining is casting shock before any debuffers will cast any debuff spell like: slow, paralyze, etc
After shock is good to cast burn for another debuffs like blind etc

My style from begining is:
Shock -> for debuffs (during debuffs I cast aspir or drain)
Frost > Rasp > Drown - to help melee
and nuke till the end
This is very useful tactic, please try

ps. sorry for my poor english :/

[Jetsam]

isnt this chart (the graphic) wrong??

Given this: Water > Fire > Ice > Wind > Earth > Lightning

Drown and Choke should stack... one is wind, one is water... they should not conflict. granted, you cannot add a third, but they should still stack. am i missing something?

Schi :
I made a chart based on this information for anyone to use. I hope this helps some blms out there.

[Koriko]

Jetsam :
isnt this chart (the graphic) wrong??

Given this: Water > Fire > Ice > Wind > Earth > Lightning

Drown and Choke should stack... one is wind, one is water... They should not conflict. Granted, you cannot add a third, but they should still stack. Am i missing something?

Nope, you're right. Drown+Choke, Burn+Rasp, Frost+Shock all will work.

[Saeki]

As stated before, Burn = Lowers INT on That being said, For example, Say you Burn an antican so in definition of burn you lowered the anticans INT... Here is my understanding, Since you lowered that Anticans INT that antican will do less dmg with his spells i.e aero, fire, thunder. etc. Now I want to ask, How is lowering the Anticans INT help you deal more dmg with your magic if INT has nothing to do with lowering MND stats which stated before MND = Magic defense.. INT = dmg output for magic spells.

I was in a xp pt in mephertand mountains(sp?) we came across a fire elemental. the fire elemental casts burn on the blm, blm nukes were weakened due to the -INT status... so let me get this straight his magic defense also went down cause he has the burn status? What i'm trying to say is Burn doesnt affect your dmg on the spell you cast on the mob but instead affects the mobs magic dmg against your party.

[plake]

Yes... MND is the spell resistance factor,

[Eragon]

Everything ive ever heard from SE including from both strategy guides has said that INT deals soley with the Dmg The Caster does. Thus lowering the INT of an enemy does nothing unless it is casting magic on you. Mnd is thus the magic resistance stat, along with healing magic

[firiien]

go find a blm and ask them to nuke something with and without burn. see for yourself what it does.

[Superbleh]

The actual damage is determined by the INT difference between caster and target I believe.. there was a thread on ffxionline.com linking to a BLM spell damage formula that was tested and verified (as far as can be done).

[Saeki]

I believe all the stat traits STR, DEX, VIT, MND, INT, and AGI when you buy +gear for it your just increasing the multiplier. that said burn does nothing but lower the mobs int making the mob do less dmg with his magic, and not increasing the players dmg on to the mob. It really makes no sense, people saying they do more dmg with burn is just getting the better end of the multiplier and want to believe burn does indeed help, also consider what day it is and what skillchain your pt is using on that certain day.

fyi, I gave burn a chance I see no dmg difference in my Thunder II MB Lv3 light SC.. varies from 335-360. total of 95INT with + food.

[Taga]

burn has always increased my maximum damage..your int vs target int does have an effect on damage..

[Blood Red Poet]

Not sure if this has been stated yet... but the DoTs of each elemental debuff stack.

"DiaI/II/BioI/II" + "Elemental Debuff" + "Elemental Debuff" + "Elemental Debuff" + and "PoisonI/II" all stack in DoT dmg. That would be near a 15 damage per 3 seconds no? Maybe more.

[Rinoa]

http://ffxi.mululu.com/zokuseisoukan.html
This isn't in english but it's one of my favorite sites since before english sites. It's easy to remember because it's a small chart.

Spells in the list going downwards (rasp, drown, frost) and going across (rasp, burn) is what works.

RASP BURN
DROWN CHOKE
FROST SHOCK

[Akumalotus]

Well my Fav Combo to use as a RDM who Subs BLM is Choke, Dia II, Poison. This Helps my Melee do More Damage and Cause about 10-20HP Damage per tick. But Lately (And this is why I don't PT with BLMs anymore) the BLM like to Cancel out my stuff with his spells and then tell me "Well I gotta level "Insert Magic Skill Here" and I'm going to do it no matter what.

To all you BLMs out there. The RDM Better Know what the hell he is doing concerning Debuffs. As far as I'm concerned you BLMs have No Business casting any Debuffs(Element or Otherwise) unless no RDM is Available.

I'm sick of seeing a Bio II after I cast a Dia II. IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF WHAT I AM TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH!

Also... Dia
BLMs. You want to Level up your Dark Magic Levels...Then Use Drain and Aspir...Or Become DRKs and Level them then. I freaking hate cocky BLMs that destroy my Job because they want to "Skill Up". You do that in my PT...You can forget about Refresh.

[Laharl]

Elem debuffs are great also for parties with a NIN tank. It is benificial to the entire party for little mp and almost no hate. It gives the NIN time to build up some hate, then I can follow up with the big nukes. This is especially nice when you start getting LV IV spells, and can easily steal hate.
As for bio vs dia, thats a topic for another thread, but the general rule in if the mob has high Atk and low Def, such as spiders, or are very weak to drk, use bio. All others, use dia. Simple.

[Biriko]

Akumalotus :
Also... Dia

Ummm, I don't remember which order I cast the 2 in as it's been 3 weeks since I've pulled out the blm, but I think that Dia doesn't cancel out Bio. I remember getting messages that Bio had worn off, then I'd recast and see the message that Dia had worn off (or vice versa) and the smn wasn't using debuffs. Possibly it could've been a glitch, but I'm curious if anyone else had this happen to them?

Akumalotus :
BLMs. You want to Level up your Dark Magic Levels...Then Use Drain and Aspir...Or Become DRKs and Level them then. I freaking hate ****y BLMs that destroy my Job because they want to "Skill Up". You do that in my PT...You can forget about Refresh.

Doesn't this seem pointless? This is like saying, "Oh, I don't wanna get as much experience as I can because I'm gonna be a crybaby about a blm trying to use Bio or use his BETTER elemental debuffs. I'm gonna whine and cry and instead of trying to keep inefficiency to a minimum, I'll max it out instead." Not giving Refresh to a mage because he/she casts ONE spell you don't want cast is childish, and in the end, you'll look like the moron in the PT and will get the boot because you're becoming a burden. Suck it up, cast Refresh, get your chains up to 5, and drink a beer or something, damn.

[Vortigun]

Great post, thank you.

[Chuko]

im pretty sure that the elemental debuffs work as follows:

wind, fire, thunder, are light elements (ie are burstable to a light skillchain) and thus stackable
water, stone, ice, are dark elements (darkness skillchain) thus stackable

ive noticed before that casting frost, then casting shock, waiting a few moments and casting frost again that the message the gains the effect of frost shows up again when if it was still frosted from the first cast, this message wouldnt show and would be replaced with No effect. And the no effect message is what i get when i cast any one elemental debuff twice in a row. So if this happens how are they stackable?

I wanna believe that the first post is correct, but what happens with this leads me to believe that frost and shock dont stack. Does anyone know what SE has to say about this shyte officially?