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I think theres a lot of pros/cons to the job that isnt being considered or overlooked by both parties, not only that but some posters are on a different ladder of the problem that dark knight has at the moment and thus changes to the job affect them differently.

For starters, I dont find war *that* broken, however it is overly powered. Dark should be the hardest hitting job in the game. It has the highest damage rated weapon, highest attack, highest str, its JAs all increase its output tremendously when they are in effect. There should be no reason why warrior's ws are so massively better than drk. Drk has horrible weapon skills considering all the buffs that it does have access to. Being at peak conditions of buffs, a drk will never average better ws than a war.

War shouldnt be the berserker(regardless of having the JA) that its depicted to be, its actually suppose to be a "strong" balanced job. Its the reason why its given offensive/defensive JAs like berserk/defender, things like fencer and retaliators, why it has a good rating in all its weapons(B- and up), to offer versatility, balance. Look at its relic, it offers a strong ws and offers a strong defense aftermath. Does that mean that warrior shouldnt be strong, no, but it needs to be better balance. For instance it doesnt need to have an overwelming ws or multiple ws to be exact(rampage,raging rush, kings justice, Ukko's fury all extremely powerful at the times they came out). If anything kings justice/metatron were great ws for war, high str rating, decent ftp. With the abundance of DA that war can get, it should be enough to be a strong job w/o needed assistance. Things like blood rage, restraint, Ukko's fury(60% str + crit) , tp gain with retaliators(its a defense JA but yet its used more for its offense, returning fire and getting in extra damage should be enough).

Now for drk, imo, its suppose to be the berserker type of job, *but* at a cost. Youre suppose to be obtaining more power while making sacrifices, the actions in which you do that are suppose to be of a dark nature, ie things like Soul eater is probably the best representation of what dark JAs/buffs should be. You sacrifice your life force for the cost of more power. LR, sacrifice your defenses for more power. Why doesnt dark get more of these? Dont get me wrong, I dont want drk to be buffed to be like the *current* war is. I want it to be exactly what it should have been from the start, high powered job with consequences in that power.

So if were not allowed to have any high powered weaponskills, there should be other ways to achieve our higher out put damage, imo speed should have been our key. When 93% haste was the cap it was evident that was our role, fast hard hitting jobs. And this may in fact be some of the complaints we get from players especially relic drks, because there was no other job that could reach this limit, while they didnt have the best ws, their speed made up for it(a balance) However SE has done nothing but put limitions to dark and not fix it.

For instance, SE lowering the haste cap hurt dark considerably, more so the relic. With proper haste buffs, jobs reach 75% haste without hassle, but in a dancer and you have a cap reducing any speed advantage dark had. As far as I know the relic itself has recieved many limitations aswell when it first came out. Soul eater, something that was a great tool against HNMs for drk, is now recieving resistance from them. LR came out with a 30 second duration. 90% of dark's spells are underpowered and casting times hurt it more than help it(stun,drain, drain II, dread spikes all very good and versitile but small vs the amount of spells it does recieve).

So what are you left with? A job that lost its speed advantage, is not the hardest hitting job, horrible ws, its strongest JA gets resisted on anything worth having it used on, its other JA is limited beyond anything. Most of its spells are mediocre. Its not looking very good.

I like this update they did for Last resort. Imo though I think this should have been done when we got hit with the 80% cap. I can see how overly powerful it would of been during the 93% era, but the 3min duration would of really helped drk at the cap era. Either way I wont take from this update, it was a good update. I love it and I appreciate it, but like everyone who has dark has said it, its a start.

Before ppl try to tell a drk how big of a buff this is, consider all the negatives that drk has or has recieved, and then compare all the buffs other jobs have recieve or keep recieving and then you can come to understand why they are still a bit bitter.

Im not here to demand a nerf bat to war, but I compared those 2 jobs as one of them has been recieving buffs that it didnt need, and more importantly performing at a power it shouldnt vs another job. You kind of have the blm and sch scenerio. I wont go into the details as ppl should be smart enough to see how SE dropped the ball on that, esp with blm never getting any updates prior to when sch had come out.(I do enjoy the recent spell casting buff, enmity/mp invincibility JAs aswell, kudos SE).

I wont be bias to drk though, as I know for sure there are many jobs out there that have been looked over in buffs. Monk anyone? has never gotten a true buff or any buff for that matter til recently added Impetus.


I dont know who to really find the blame in, is it SE because we feel they dont know their own game? or the community that bandwagons any job that they feel is superior to others and theres no reason to pick the others because the faster you kill something the better it is overall. If there is a mechanic that the community can abuse of, then they will and force SE to nerf it. Handful of kclub drks could destroy any mob in this game(even AV at one point) because of that, ppl would never use any other job formation if they could, because it was more efficient to kill something in 30-50 seconds than 3 minutes or so. Soon as SE noticed this, inc soul eater nerf. Who's fault does that become? the community for finding a powerful combination and then abusing it? or SE for making such a combination possible in the first place? And instead of nerfing the weapon or weapon combination, they nerf the jobs ability on HNMs/NMs were the jobs ability is most needed.

Anyhow I dont mean to ramble on, I just think the whole "your wrong im right" back and forth banter that ppl are having is not helping nor getting either party to look at the points being discussed. Yes, the LR update was a great buff, yes this can help dark better, but its also a different increase for the situations you find yourself in, for some its probably too small of a buff(ie you dont even get any haste out of it, outside Seigan/third eye spam, but hey its something right? we *have* to be happy with that) and others its a great buff. The point is though, drk still needs more tweaks here and there to be better balanced with other jobs.

Taint, on 16 February 2011 - 11:13 AM, said:

Yep pretty much, it seems to jump from apoc/vv/SB and apoc/vv/rr being the better combos for fudo sam. I dont know if you remember me posting about that last time to kine when he was doing the sam atmas on the other forum. Im asking him now though to see if ODD is added to the weapons on the spreadsheet(just b/c it feels like it isnt) which would explain why RR does better on higher def mobs. As you would need something like 540+ defense on a mob(with diaII) to even comepare to SB, but if ODD isnt being counted I can see this bringing the bar down lower and explaining why its better on harder mobs. Either that or some mobs have rediculous amounts of defense...